Help! Head Gasket Question & head studs ect :)

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poweredbylincoln

Well-known member
I wanted to ask for a copper gasket. There is a lip that goes around each cylinder.

Do I want that facing up or down when I replace the head gasket?

Also when do you know when it's right to change the head studs on a block?

I have heard they stretch over time but what consitutes changing them?

And lastly has anyone put any rtv around the water jacket hole sin a head stud?

Or after installing a new head gasket run a motor until warm/hot without water let it cool off then retorque the head gasket for a better seal?

thank you guys =)
 
Turn the seam up. That way if it moves it will etch the head and not the block. Use copper coat sealer to coat the gasket before installing it and torque it. I posted here a couple of days ago how I seat the gasket. I install the gasket and run the engine for a minute to warm it letting it cool between runs and retorquing it then I add water and run it to operating temp, drain the water, let it cool and retorque it, add water and drive. Never use silicone around the ports, if the deck is flat the copper coat will do the job.

I wouldn't touch the head stud question with a ten foot pole. I will say, if you have never done this job, you better try it on an old block to get a feel of how difficult it is to remove them and what the pitfalls are. Not an easy job.
 
Most guys go seam up, and you'll probably do it that way. I, however, go seam down.

As for studs, it's not so much stretch when they get reused. The issue is the threads getting polished and no longer presenting enough friction to hold torque through multiple thermal cycles.
 
Head gaskets should have the crimp up, for like materials, of head and block.

Crimp should be down, if say you have a cast iron block, and an Aluminum head, as the head will move some what, no the front won't end up in the back, just a little contraction, and expansion. That is if you can flip the gasket, and have all holes line up.

I have used a lot of use head studs over the years, but on New engines we can' take the chance of one snapping, and have to pull the head again.

Never ever heard of one loosing torque, gaskets shrinking yes, but never bolts stretching, or backing off because they were used.

When the threads get bad on a bolt, we pitch the bolt, and nut.

Herm.
 
Kohnke Rebabbitting said:
Head gaskets should have the crimp up, for like materials, of head and block.

Crimp should be down, if say you have a cast iron block, and an Aluminum head, as the head will move some what, no the front won't end up in the back, just a little contraction, and expansion. That is if you can flip the gasket, and have all holes line up.

I have used a lot of use head studs over the years, but on New engines we can' take the chance of one snapping, and have to pull the head again.

Never ever heard of one loosing torque, gaskets shrinking yes, but never bolts stretching, or backing off because they were used.

When the threads get bad on a bolt, we pitch the bolt, and nut.

Herm.
Click to expand...

Right on Herm
George
 
I've seen them run for miles. Overheated too. James is in no way overheating the engine. It just comes up to temp a little quicker and will get the gasket properly seated before anything gets a chance to leak. I assume that is his logic. I could be wrong there.
 
Ron W said:
I would never run an engine without coolant more than 2 seconds! Ron W
Click to expand...


Nor would I, Ron. If you create enough Heat to make a head gasket Shrink, running with out water, your not doing a engine owner any favors. It sure isn't doing the cylinders, pistions, and valves, any good with uneven heat, that takes out side air to disipate it. There has to be some common sense injected in there some place.

Herm.
 
Thank you guys for all of your help I truly appreciate it :)

the block is a stock diamond block and stock head. And to ask a quick question on james

as far as copper coat sealer, what brand/product do you suggest ? Indian head? or?

And the gasket has the seamed turned down previously on the motor when i pulled the head.

To put in 3 of the studs that came out when i pulled the head should i possibly locktite the bottom of them when i put them in or no?


thank you guys again for taking the time to help me :)
 
Brent and i have had some very pointed disagreements, BUT,if you want your engine to preform well and last many years read and follow what he has said, hes a professional and makes his living rebuilding these engines, he is talking from experience, not hearsay, and that goes for James Rodgers also, every one has there way of doing things, if your comforable doing it your way, then do it that way, but as for me, i always go with the advice of the guys that have been there and done that
 
Hey guys,

I'm a newbie in here and I suppose stepping into this apparently hot topic is perhaps a little dangerous. That said I do respect others' opinions, even those I disagree with or don't yet fully understand. I do not mean to stir these flames, only to give a different viewpoint.

When I think of running a water cooled engine without coolant, I think of an air-cooled engine that runs all day with no coolant. True, an air-cooled engine's cylinder and head castings have fins that radiate heat into an airflow. Seems to me that a water-cooled engine with no coolant is just like an air cooled one but with no significant ability to effectively radiate its generated heat into the air.

I just can't quite see the localized hot spots that some are suggesting. If that were the case, an air cooled engine wouldn't be feasible for the long haul -- and aircraft engines can operate at 100% output for hours on end.

Therefore, in my youngish and not-yet-well-formed mind I can't fathom why running a water cooled engine for a short period of time could hurt anything. James is suggesting running an engine just long enough to get the metal up to a reasonable operating temperature. Sure, we've seen the results of doing this for an extended period of time and the melted blobs that can be left behind; that's not what we're talking about.

For what it's worth...

-Dan
 
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poweredbylincoln said:
And to ask a quick question on james

as far as copper coat sealer, what brand/product do you suggest ? Indian head? or?



To put in 3 of the studs that came out when i pulled the head should i possibly locktite the bottom of them when i put them in or no?


thank you guys again for taking the time to help me :)
Click to expand...
And to ask a quick question on james

as far as copper coat sealer, what brand/product do you suggest ? Indian head? or?

Copper Coat brand or Permatex copperseal

To put in 3 of the studs that came out when i pulled the head should i possibly locktite the bottom of them when i put them in or no?

A drop of medium grade loctite won't hurt but is not necessary.
thank you guys again for taking the time to help me
 
Even this newbie knows you are not going to hurt a Model A engine if you run it without coolant say for less than 30 seconds. You simply will not build up enough heat to hurt it if was started cool. I do not know if the comment who said "2 seconds" was exaggerating or not. Now in some of the engines of today you might worry about ruining a waterpump seal but not a Model A engine.
 
No one has to do things my way. My way is my way, nothing more or less. Take it or leave it, I don't care. My thoughts are offered only for consideration in response to an honest question. I'm sure Brent's father has had lots of experience and I remember, not long ago, when James was asking, on the old Fordbarn, how to rebuild Model A engines. I'm sure they have learned a lot in receint years. I started building and rebuilding Model As in 1956 (my dad was a professional) and other old cars as a hobby since then. I have been a machinist since 1958 and owned my own shop since 1963. I don't know everything. One thing that I do is consult professional manuals when I have questions. I recomend that to everybody! It has always amazed me how the youngsters are so much smarter than the older folks. Perhaps we "unlearn" things as we get older. Ron W
 
I think it's clear that there is more than one " correct" way to do many aspects of engine building. Myself, I would love to have an engine built by any of the above combatants, I think they all know what they're talking about.

Tyler
 
Each of us has our way of doing things, and none of us will agree on every thing. But for me I have been building engines for over 50 years. I will not change the way I do it, because it works for me every time. That is the way other people feel also. So my point is if it works for you do it.
I remember when I was a boy and this guy was driving this car in to a body shop with out a radiator I said to my Dad is that going to hurt his engine, he said it probably is not a good idea. So you know which way I do it.
 
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OK......

1. I've built engines for 44 plus years.
2. This is personal.....I don't run water cooled engines without water...at any time!
3. 1 minute of run time is not long enough to "heat cycle" an engine....it needs
to get up to " operating temperature".
4. With the engine on the stand, I re-torque the head 2-4 times, before it leaves
the stand....the gasket/s compresses!

Now what did Ford use on head gaskets, when the Model A was new?

Dudley
 
Mr. JBohannon: I doubt there would be any noticable damage, but I would hope you reapply the assembly lube when you put it back together. My problem (humble opinion) with short running time on first start is that you have run it enough to displace the assembly lube, oil or whatever you use, but not long enough to establish good lubrication and run in and mating of new parts, and when you re-start it those new parts are not going to have much if any lube. You have also done a pretty good job of washing down the cylinders with cold, raw gas. Same thing happens on every start to some extent, but first start is critical for break in. My humble opinion is run it at high idle, 12-1500 rpm, for 15-20 minutes, vary the speed a bit, let it cool down and re-check everything. Would not hurt to change the oil then too, especially if you dont have a filter.
 
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