Head Studs

[Lowbuckboz]

I ran an aluminum head that required longer studs. I made an investment in ARP studs that are about a 1/4" longer than stock. This made up for the extra length I needed due to needing to use washers with my heads. Hearing guys saying to adjust the length of the stud by backing it out of the hole is just stupid. It only has 3/4" engagement to begin with. A benefit of using good studs is I have yet to have a head nut move during retorque of the head. They are expensive, but well worth it.

 

[edmondclinton]

My point is, none of the current suppliers of Model A parts stock or sell any studs of the correct size. I know there are studs somewhere in the world that are correct but most don't have that information or can afford those. I also believe I stated that the holes could not be molested for any kind of stud to work like you say.

If that is your point then you should have said so. The following is what you said and that's what I was going by:

"There is no such thing as "correct" head studs and running them down to the shoulder WILL make them different heights. This is particularly true if any of the holes have been drilled in or had thread replacement."

Bratton's advertises correct length studs. However, judging by the pictures on their site they are the correct length but are still not made correctly in the shoulder area like Ford's original. Ford made the short unthreaded area, or shoulder, at the base of the stud, above the 3/4" threaded area, a full 7/16 inch diameter.

 

[edmondclinton]

Hearing guys saying to adjust the length of the stud by backing it out of the hole is just stupid. It only has 3/4" engagement to begin with....

That's exactly Lowbuckboz. Plus look how weak the hole threads may be when a common hardware store tap of the wrong class fit has been run through the hole and cut off good metal.

 

[Mike V. Florida]

Bratton's advertises correct length studs. However, judging by the pictures on their site they are the correct length but are still not made correctly in the shoulder area like Ford's original. Ford made the short unthreaded area, or shoulder, at the base of the stud, above the 3/4" threaded area, a full 7/16 inch diameter.

Which is exactly what the person that makes his living by rebuilding antique engines said.

 

[James Rogers]

If that is your point then you should have said so. The following is what you said and that's what I was going by:

"There is no such thing as "correct" head studs and running them down to the shoulder WILL make them different heights. This is particularly true if any of the holes have been drilled in or had thread replacement."

Bratton's advertises correct length studs. However, judging by the pictures on their site they are the correct length but are still not made correctly in the shoulder area like Ford's original. Ford made the short unthreaded area, or shoulder, at the base of the stud, above the 3/4" threaded area, a full 7/16 inch diameter.

So you agree with me! Why do you attempt to argue a point that you dispute your with own words.

 

[George Miller]

I ran an aluminum head that required longer studs. I made an investment in ARP studs that are about a 1/4" longer than stock. This made up for the extra length I needed due to needing to use washers with my heads. Hearing guys saying to adjust the length of the stud by backing it out of the hole is just stupid. It only has 3/4" engagement to begin with. A benefit of using good studs is I have yet to have a head nut move during retorque of the head. They are expensive, but well worth it.

Hearing guys saying to adjust the length of the stud by backing it out of the hole is just stupid.
_____________________________________________________________________________
That is not a nice thing to say. I worked with this kind of thing all my life.

 

[Lowbuckboz]

Then you know how bad of an idea it is to back the stud out. It will cause lifted threads and head gasket retention issues.

 

[steammech50]

Did not mean to start a war with this post,but as long as you have 1 to 1.5 times dia. thread engagement it will hold what the stud will as per machinery handbook .

 

[pgerhardt]

Excuse my lack of knowledge but what is ARP?

 

[Mitch//pa]

Excuse my lack of knowledge but what is ARP?

http://arp-bolts.com

 

[George Miller]

Then you know how bad of an idea it is to back the stud out. It will cause lifted threads and head gasket retention issues.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This will be my last post, at least for a while.
I think I have made more threads than you have seen. Have single pointed threads on a lathe, cut threads with a die, rolled threads with a thread rolling head, bump rolled threads.

We are only talking about a thread or two in the block, plus the threads on the stud my have been made to long. But it is better to be short a thread in the block than two threads in the nut.

Of the engines I have done, I have never seen a stud pull out of the block unless some one tried to get a broken stud out and made a mess of it. Or re tapped the hole with the wrong class tap. You might not know what that means. Different class fit each other with less or more clearance. Fords class on the A has a slight resistance when screw together. You might not notice it. Bye

Have worked on many Model A,s redone 25 for my self. I do not like the word restore, that is for cars like Marco T has. Truly like factory.

 

[edmondclinton]

So you agree with me! Why do you attempt to argue a point that you dispute your with own words.

No, I don't agree with you. You said:

"There is no such thing as "correct" head studs and running them down to the shoulder WILL make them different heights."

That statement is not true. I have original studs in two of my engines and on one engine I have studs that I bought from a head manufacturer and they are made correctly.

 

[edmondclinton]

Did not mean to start a war with this post,but as long as you have 1 to 1.5 times dia. thread engagement it will hold what the stud will as per machinery handbook .

That's the standard rule but in the case of old blocks that have been used multiple times, the strength of the iron that the threads are cut into may be an unknown so it's best to use the length as designed by Ford which is 3/4".

 

[Lowbuckboz]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This will be my last post, at least for a while.
I think I have made more threads than you have seen. Have single pointed threads on a lathe, cut threads with a die, rolled threads with a thread rolling head, bump rolled threads.

We are only talking about a thread or two in the block, plus the threads on the stud my have been made to long. But it is better to be short a thread in the block than two threads in the nut.

Of the engines I have done, I have never seen a stud pull out of the block unless some one tried to get a broken stud out and made a mess of it. Or re tapped the hole with the wrong class tap. You might not know what that means. Different class fit each other with less or more clearance. Fords class on the A has a slight resistance when screw together. You might not notice it. Bye

Have worked on many Model A,s redone 25 for my self. I do not like the word restore, that is for cars like Marco T has. Truly like factory.

I know, you forgot more than I know. Very bad assumption on your part. Don't get uptight over a conversation. I have seen what I speak of.

 

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

I have always tightened the studs down, with about a 10 pound torque, 48 years worth.

I use Indian head, or Permatex 300 on the stud at the bottom, as well as all gaskets.

Our engines always get the stud holes cleaned out. If you don't you can't get a truely clean hole, with rust, old gasket cement, ect., and you cant see any thread damage clearly.

Molested holes have been talked about, but we fix those kind. Also we can be trusted around studs, Dogs, and little Children.

Yes the studs are out of alignment a few thousandths on what I find to always be 1 to maybe 5., we NEVER use old studs on A's, or B's.

I use the head gasket to align the studs. First when you lay the gasket on, it looks like their all bent, but I have found this not to be the case. Always take the worst one first, but don't do a 100% job, but look for another off one, and that most of the time will let the gasket drop like a rock. If the gasket drops, so will the head.

I have a 3 pound lead hammer I tap them with, DO NOT POUND, but tap. The point of tapping is the bottom of the threads, on the top of the studs.

In my opinion, the studs should be locked on the shoulder, "THAT PULLS THE THREADS TIGHT", as loose threads would have to stand all the torque.

Also if there is water leakage, you would just have another place for water to come out of, that is not sealed.

Lastly, in all the other makes of cars, tractors, ect., I have NEVER seen any body leave a stut bolt loose!

Those that are worried about a short stud, just replace it with another one.

After Vern at Arnold Motors, In Fort Dodge, Iowa gets any bad holes fixed, and surface, I just don't have trouble with stud bolt height.

In any engine, block, body, running gears ect.



Herm.