Head bolts in an early block?

Yoyodyne

Yoyodyne

Well-known member
While trying to figure out the exact thread specs on the head stud holes and studs on my 37 blocks, I noticed that a standard grade 5 bolt fit the threaded hole nicely. Then the thought occurred to me to just use bolts like the late motors. I'm figuring on using Orosco Eddie Meyer heads which need all the same length stud, so what would be wrong with just using head bolts, as long as I seal them from water leaks? It would save a lot of work with the studs, and make removing the heads easier if needed.

Why did Ford use studs, and why did they switch to bolts?

PS - Found the hole specs in a thread here, thanks to the folks who posted it.
 
Well, with studs you get more clamping pressure from lower bolt torque account finer threads on the upper end of the stud. Also, once the studs are sealed in the block, you don't disturb the seal when removing heads account removing the nut and not the stud.

I've been thinking about this very question myself for a current 59ab build and will be glad to see others answers. Good Luck and Merry Christmas!
 
One thing you may want to consider is the studs Ford used were a taper thread. The tapped holes in the block were (obviously) tapered to accept the studs.
I am not certain the later bolts were as well. If the bolts are straight cut I would think you would need to tap the holes in the block accordingly.
The tapered thread was the design Ford utilized to effect a seal as you are obviously aware of.
I see no reason why you couldn't use bolts as long as you are certain you have the proper (depth) engagement and they are sealed very well. The rule of thumb for proper engagement is 1 1/2 times the diameter of the bolt.
 
Yoyodyne,
Get a hold of Roy Nacewicz , nertman@aol.com and run your question by him.
My preference is studs vs cap screws. Once the stud is anchored in the block most
of the 'action' will be on the 7/16-20 fine thread not the 7/16-14 thread that threads
in the block.
Charlie ny
 
i've built many many useing bolts instead of studs. I just go to my local fasenall all dealer close to me and bye the length I need in grade 8 there kind of gold color, use grade 8 flat washers. The only differants is the heads are 5/8 instead od 11/16. Walt
 
If you've your studs, I recommend you run a flat file over the deck or have a skim cut made at your local machine shop. another practice is removing the first thread from the block. As for which is better? Probably the studs if properly installed, but I use bolts torqued to 45 ft/lb for 3 heat cycles.
 
Bolts for me on the two 59 blocks I have just built. I like to use the Cat bolts with the 11/16 inch heads. A little more pricey than the Fasenall bolts that Walt uses, just a personal preference for me. Ed
 
Henry, yes they came from the Caterpillar dealer. There is one near me that I used.
I used 48 each 2 1/2 inch bolts for my aluminum head part # 7X-0312.
For the iron heads, I used 28 each 2 1/2 inch bolts part # 7X-0312
4 each 2 1/4 inch bolts part #7X-0311
16 each 1 3/4 inch bolts part # 8C-6877
 

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Thanks all, I guess it wasn't such a dumb question after all.

I like Cat hardware too, Cat makes very good hardware, and a very wide selection of it. Surprisingly, it's very nicely priced, probably cheaper than Fastenall. Far as I know you have to call a dealer to get it.
 
Either bolt or studs work fine, we use them both.

The only recommendation I would make is to use washers on them, especially with aluminum heads!

This will usually add about 1/8" (.125") to the overall bolt length!

The ARP studs also have an "allen" socket broached in the tops to help with removal later!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. All our builds here get ARP fasteners, bolts or studs! We also have the option of using either 5/8" or 11/16" nuts with the studs. The photo below shows the 5/8" nuts in one kit. The "A" in the part number designates aluminum heads.
 

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Nobody makes flathead studs that Im know of. The ARP are too long amd have to be shortened. Too much work and expense.
 
Ol' Ron said:
Nobody makes flathead studs that Im know of. The ARP are too long amd have to be shortened. Too much work and expense.
Click to expand...

Hi Ron, how you guy's doin' up there??

The only time we've needed to shorten the ARP stud setup is if the customer wants to use the Chrome style acorn nut covers! This is the reason we stock both nut sizes, 5/8" or 11/16", seems the Chrome covers press on the larger nut correctly!!

The ONLY other time you need to "shorten" a couple is on the bottom threads above the heat cross-over! That hole is very "shallow" in that area!

We order bulk studs from ARP in various lengths, same for the main stud kits, we use these here also!

(Add) How much more time on that stroker?? Been following along! Should make upwards of 150 HP and some serious torque?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Again, wishing all you guy's a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
 
The correct Ford studs can be purchased from Mac's for a fair price and in a varity of lengths to serve nearly all applications.
 
Thanks John, I tried to get studs for the Hydro engine, back when. Can't believe it's still running.
Gary, the 294 is all buttoned up now. I have to build some fuel lines and linkage for the carbs. Looking forward to the dyno tests.
 
There are several ways to install studs according to the application. Installing the studs in a flathead would go something like this:
Remove top thread in block.
use medium Loc-tight.
Torque to 10 ft/lbs.
That's it, torquing the nuts to 45 ft/lbs. We used a similar method on the aircraft gear box. I'm sure there's more to it.
 
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