Going to the next level

O

old skool

Member
Hello,

I am wrapping up a project and planning the next. I want to build another engine, but I want to go a little deeper this time. There was a article from a old time racer/builder (I wish I made a copy of it). He was asked the secret of his success and he whispered "it's in the cam". I was going with a mild "hop up". What would be the best cam to get and where is the best place to get one (for a little more power)? What should I be looking for? I would assume it depends on what head I am running (5:5, 6:1 etc) or does that even matter?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,
Marty
 
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The first thing I would add is a counterweighted crank. It's the best way to add life to the babbit. The second thing to add is the 5.5 head. I've only run stock cams, so I have no advice on them.
 
The "touring grind" cam in my Turlock Machine rebuilt motor is impressive. The idle isn't as smooth as a stock cam, but when you step on the accelerator, you get a big, throaty, instant response! It is most noticeable when on steep hills. My Tudor can pass traffic going uphill.

It has inserts instead of poured babbit and a 5.5 head. However, without the extra lift and duration of the touring cam, the 5.5 head would go almost unnoticed.
 
Without raising the compression, don't expect any real noticable improvement. As far as cams go, more lift helps low and mid range. More duration helps top end but will hurt overall operation if compression isn't raised, as in adding a higher compression head. In other words, if duration is increased without raising compression, overall performance will suffer because low compression won't give the engine enough power to kick the RPMs up to the point where the duration will be of benefit.
 
P.S. said:
The "touring grind" cam in my Turlock Machine rebuilt motor is impressive. The idle isn't as smooth as a stock cam, but when you step on the accelerator, you get a big, throaty, instant response! It is most noticeable when on steep hills. My Tudor can pass traffic going uphill.

It has inserts instead of poured babbit and a 5.5 head. However, without the extra lift and duration of the touring cam, the 5.5 head would go almost unnoticed.
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No harm meant but I've got to disagree, its just the other way around. Its the higher compression that helps on the hills. Without the added compression, the touring cam, depending on duration could hurt overall driveability. Higher compression to a point will help overall performance, even top end to a small amount. cam and head will work together for a noticable inprovement in low,mid and top end performance.
 
To have a really hot engine you have to have it all. Cam, compression , Free flowing intake, good exhaust, the right carb with a down draft, good ignition.
 
Purdy Swoft said:
No harm meant but I've got to disagree, its just the other way around. Its the higher compression that helps on the hills. Without the added compression, the touring cam, depending on duration could hurt overall driveability. Higher compression to a point will help overall performance, even top end to a small amount. cam and head will work together for a noticable inprovement in low,mid and top end performance.
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OK, that's good to know. Thanks!
 
Dual updraft carbs work good for me and is easier requiring less parts to set up in some cases. No fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator or carb mods are needed for this setup in my case. It also avoids the possibility of the oil pan getting filled with gas by a fuel pump malfunction. Good tuning and a hotter performance coil will also help.
 
I have put Bill Stipe's IB330 in a few cars my own 2-dr touring included and it is sweet as can be. Really wakes up the engine, and idle barely affected. I realize that a higher comp head would add even more to this but I am not ready to go there yet (now running stock 4.2 head). Someday I will have to tear the motor down more and then it will get a 5.9 head and counterweighted crank. The driveability of the car is so much better with the .330 lift cam. (stock lift was .302). I can be in a traffic situation and not bog down the flow of traffic. We have great touring in Texas but have to go thru a lot of congested areas to get there.
Some have said here than an original A back in the day could go 60 mph all day long. i wonder if any of these folks were around back then to have tried it. In any stock A I have ever driven, if you did that you'd prolly have the rpms up to 2600 or more. At those revs the engine sounds like it will blow apart at any second.

I like my babbit in one piece. I run the above with a Mitchell. I can go all day long at 60 mph on the highway and never be over my self-imposed redline of 2000-2100 (I run a tach). After all, any more revs than that and you have fallen off the HP curve, so what is the point.

My nephew is doing a very nice build of a '31 slant Fordor, a car that had been wrecked badly. He already has a Stipe .330 lift cam, will use the 5.9 head, inserts, and John at Pete's Auto Machine in NM is making BB cranks (on an A crank). These have the B counterweights, with the added weights on the side found in the BB crank. These added weights are removeable so that machining of the rod journals is possible down the road. You end up with a really smooth engine which is so much better for all the internals. It doesn't get any smoother

When he is done y'all are invited over to drive it!
 
tbirdtbird said:
Some have said here than an original A back in the day could go 60 mph all day long. i wonder if any of these folks were around back then to have tried it. In any stock A I have ever driven, if you did that you'd prolly have the rpms up to 2600 or more. At those revs the engine sounds like it will blow apart at any second.
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I state that regularly.

No the engine does not blow up. There are period articles about running the car cross country averaging 60 MPH for various proof oil or fuel stunts. Stock engines only- not even a B cam.
Average speed over the distance means they were really running over 60 MPH cause they had to stop for gas.

They did not blow up and do not blow up. My brothers coupe has been push hard since the early 1970's. The babbitt failure was due to a bad pour as the company had many bad engines. My Fordor was stock and had no problem running 55 to 60. People always complain we run our cars too fast and they can't keep up.

Read up on period articles and you will get a different picture of the A then just talking to guys at the car shows.

A well balanced like factory A is a different car then what most guys are driving today.
 
Hello,

Thanks for all the advice. I find it confusing (on a different topic) about taking a Model A Ford over 60 mph. I am reading many threads on this topic. Half of the people say it's OK and the other half say "don't do it". It seems (from what I am reading) that long term it will wear an engine down faster because of more stress, BUT I AM AMATURE AND STILL LEARNING! A number of guys here are running stock engines with an over drive system and they go all over the place and don't seem to have any problems.

Thanks
 
Kevin, I do agree that whatever Ford did to achieve a balanced flywheel and crank back in the day worked well. Whatever they did, no one seems to be able to do it today. Any more than 2400 in an A I have ever driven would shake my teeth right out.
Obviously I have never had the opportunity to drive a low-mileage original A, which I am sure is a treat

I still maintain that for a newcomer, with an unknown rebuild/babbit/balance job he should stay on the conservative side of the RPMs else he invites a costly re-babbit job.

And old skool, the whole idea of an overdrive is indeed to keep the RPMs down to a low roar
 
I'm not saying whoever said "its all in the cam" was a liar, but he obviously wasn't going to give away all his secrets. If it were just cam, every garage engine "puter togetherer" (not builder) could produce the same power as the professional engine builders who have been researching how to improve the A engine for 20+ years. Yes cam change does help a lot. But that doesn't necessarily get more air in and out faster. You need some major porting done in the valves, along with bigger SS valves. and even with most high compression heads if you plan on running more than normal rpms could use some porting. More carb, because if you go with a pretty big cam change a zenith won't cut it. If you want the power all the time I suggest a stromberg instead of a weber. Both work fine, I just like the strombergs better because their 2 barrel all the time. You also need to think about getting the exhaust out. Reds tube headers are probably the best bang for your buck as far as headers go. Then a Aries muffler that Is less restrictive.

My brother has the 3/4 race cam in his 4 door. Great cam in my opinion. No it doesn't sound like a model a at idle, but it runs really really well down the road, and even pulls overdrive really good. I put the windfield race cam in mine. Personally I like it. It doesn't like anything below 800-1000 rpm. But will run like a scalded dog when you give it the juice. But, this cam doesn't seem to really wake up until around 1800 or so rpm. 2000+ is when it just starts to get fun. That being said, it doesn't pull overdrive that well. Flat land it's great, but a hill you can feel it die off. I'm probably going to switch to 16's to gear it down little so hopefully it pulls overdrive better. Plus I like the looks of 16's better.

You can double a flat heads horse power relatively easily as long as your machinist knows what he's doing. After you get past about 110 hp you're not going to have a long lasting road motor, so it's best for a long term driver to keep your goal under 90-100hp. Which is more than what most people would want out of their "stock" A anyways. If you're wanting a "hopped up" motor my personal suggestion would be just a snyders head, inserted and balanced bottom end, 3/4 race or less cam, SS valve set, extensive valve porting, carboration, and exhaust. And I bet you'd be grinning from ear to ear everytime you pulled hill, or left a red light.
 
Have bushings put in the block for the new cam. Larger seats and valves. Clean up the ports.
 
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