General build questions

C

crazy redneck

Junior Member
Hi Fellows! Just joined a few days ago,love it!Here goes,I am going to build an 8ba for a p/u.I am not after much more than stock performance,can't afford it.What I do want is a cam with a nice lope to it and the aluminum heads and intake for asthetics.Not sure yet if I will go with 2x2's or a four barrel.I have what I believe is a very nice block.Came out of a truck.I pullred the heads and cleaned the block surface,could not find any cracks visualy.I pulled the pan and dropped one rod cap the bearing looked good.It was standard as was the bore.There is no lip in the bores.Should. I hone it and just leave it stock bore or go for more? What cam should I go with? My first thought was an isky max-1. Any help would be appreciated. Crazy redneck from Gonzales texas.
 
I'm having an 8ba rebuilt right now. You probably should go .010 over on the pistons and .010 under on the crank to get everything back in shape. have everything balanced to give the engine a longer life. well worth the $200 or so. as for the cam, Im going with a stock one but its personal preference. i prefer the smoother idle. also, stock carb and heads. my truck will be mostly original so I dont need/want more performance. it will have headers and dual exhaust though!
alot of good help here on engines. Walt Dupont on here. been building flatheads for a long, long time. Ol' Ron as well and others. listen to them, they know what they are talking about.
i would go stock and save the money for tires...

Walt did a stock 59ab flathead V8 for my fathers '35 pu and it sounds great with headers and glass packs.

good luck,
Chris
 
I wouldn't use a max1, definitely not in a stock size engine in a pickup. This cam will eat a chunk bottom end torque.
If the engine is as good as you think it is, check the valve clearance, if it's close to do right, and you want to strip it all out for cleaning and inspection, keep all the valves an lifters in order with each other and the cam lobe. When it goes back together, the correct clearance may be just a valve grind away. This will save you a bunch of folding stuff, and a bunch of torque.
If you change the intake for a dual or 4bbl the 8 BA ignition will have to be changed, best bet is a converted sbc one, Charlie NY on here can do this conversion for you with a flathead curve in it, there are others that can do this too, it's a very common conversion. The normal aftermarket ignitions mostly don't have the right ignition curve believe it r not.
The 8BA ignition won't as it has no centrifugal advance, only vacuum and has to have a matching carb.
Stock cam, pair of heads, dual or 4bbl intake and sbc ignition. That's what I think is the best combo for you, if you want a lopey idle, pull the choke out.
Martin.
 
crazy redneck said:
Hi Fellows! Just joined a few days ago,love it!Here goes,I am going to build an 8ba for a p/u.I am not after much more than stock performance,can't afford it.What I do want is a cam with a nice lope to it and the aluminum heads and intake for asthetics.Not sure yet if I will go with 2x2's or a four barrel.I have what I believe is a very nice block.Came out of a truck.I pullred the heads and cleaned the block surface,could not find any cracks visualy.I pulled the pan and dropped one rod cap the bearing looked good.It was standard as was the bore.There is no lip in the bores.Should. I hone it and just leave it stock bore or go for more? What cam should I go with? My first thought was an isky max-1. Any help would be appreciated. Crazy redneck from Gonzales texas.
Click to expand...

I would recommend at least changing the pistons and rings to some lighter pieces and use "moly" rings. These two items can add substantial HP by themselves to any build. Have the rotator balanced (at least run up) to make certain no future vibration issues.

Assuming you plan on having the bores finish honed by a shop, I would ask if they have access to a "block-plate" to finish the bores. It makes a huge difference in the final build with respect to "sealing" the rings quickly.

(Add) If you aren't 100% familiar with the block and it's past, I would surely pressure test it just as a general precaution.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Would like to wish all here a "Happy Holiday" season and a "Happy New Year" also!
 
Gary,
I really don't get the claim that lighter pistons and moly rings "can add substantial hp by themselves" ? Can you really genuinely back this claim with proof? The pistons and rings are most definitely not the cork in the flathead power quest. So how could a change here add substantial power??? And when you say substantial, what we talking? 10 hp? 20 hp? I'd put money on the difference in power with this change alone would be almost un measurable on a decent honest dynomometer. Seat of your pants difference? Absolutely not.
So what are you basing this claim on? Back to back dynomometer testing? Drag strip testing?
If you could prove a "substantial gain" I'd be buying them tomorrow.
Realy looking forward to the evidence.
Martin.
 
scooder said:
Gary,
I really don't get the claim that lighter pistons and moly rings "can add substantial hp by themselves" ? Can you really genuinely back this claim with proof? The pistons and rings are most definitely not the cork in the flathead power quest. So how could a change here add substantial power??? And when you say substantial, what we talking? 10 hp? 20 hp? I'd put money on the difference in power with this change alone would be almost un measurable on a decent honest dynomometer. Seat of your pants difference? Absolutely not.
So what are you basing this claim on? Back to back dynomometer testing? Drag strip testing?
If you could prove a "substantial gain" I'd be buying them tomorrow.
Realy looking forward to the evidence.
Martin.
Click to expand...

Hi Martin, rather than me trying to convince you, if you have some free time just Google "piston ring friction loss" and enjoy some very interesting reading!

When you use a "metric" ring pack (1.5, 1.5. 3.0) in conjunction with some "shorter" skirt lightweight pistons you would be amazed at the amount of "frictional HP" that gets freed up. We know on the Chev "race-builds" we see over 30 HP. On the Flathead platform where you're already working with much lower numbers even a 15% gain would show up as 15 add'l HP on a 100 HP base unit!

The mfr's today are so tuned into this "free" HP that the "moly" rings are slowly disappearing and being replaced with "steel" ones that are much stronger, lighter, and less susceptible to wear, detonation, etc. Many units are now using 1 mm "steel" rings today, these are super-light and much stronger than any of the more conventional "plasma-moly" ones that were the staple of the race guys for years!!

I would add also many aftermarket parts are now be "coated" to help eliminate both wear AND friction, this is happening big-time right now! For years now we've been using the "teflon" coated cam brgs in all our Flathead builds. It's not one single item by itself that adds to the final HP, but the entire combination of parts. Obviously there's more "drag" (friction) from piston rings than cam/cam brgs, but in the larger picture it ALL adds up.

We are presently involved in certain builds where a "plasma-moly" ring is no longer the way to go, and even the 1/16" ring packs are also disappearing. Times are changing and the HP hunt NEVER ends!

When assembling the Flathead with the "metric" 1.5, 1.5, 3.0, moly-ring pack you can "feel" the difference while turning it over to install the pistons, it's a "night & day" experience from the older 3 or 4 pistons with cast rings. Remember those old rings were 3/32", 3/32", 3/16" and 3/16", way too heavy, did the job back when, but not for today!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. If you take one of our more conventional Flathead builds we can produce 140/150 HP without any porting, o'size valves, "trick" cams, etc, etc. If you reduce the friction it takes for the unit to run, it will show up as positive HP, there's no other way to explain it.
 
Thanks for you reply Gary,
I'll have a read about this stuff, see if I can be convinced. We gotta remember that something that could free up some horses on a 500 +hp high winding sbc probably won't translate to a low revving restricted breathing flathead.
Martin.
 
Anything that decreases friction horsepower will increase actual power output. Another benefit is the reduction of heat transferred to the coolant.
 
Jack,
It's the "substantial gain" bit I've got a problem with. I fully understand the theory here, I really doubt your gonna feel the difference in an regular flathead unless your buns are a lot more sensitive than mine.
In a screaming ohv with 1.5 hp per cube at 8500 rpm, it's gonna show on a dyno, that's a lot of friction at them revs, so more to remove with the thin rings. Thus more benefit useing them.
Martin.
 
flatjack9 said:
I guess we need to define substantial gain.
Click to expand...

Hi Jack, could not have said it better.

Let me expand further, it is my belief that there is between 20 and 30 HP gained from the correct piston/ring packs alone, I have numerous dyno tests showing overall HP numbers but none to show the exact HP number from the lesser piston/ring friction ONLY!! It would be too costly today to establish this particular number. The only way to validate it would be by a piston/ring change ONLY, then retest with ALL the same parts!

If I'm correct and assuming the number to be "20" (HP) add'l, I would have to consider this to be substantial on a 100 HP platform, maybe not so on a 500 HP build, but it's nice to have "20" more either way? On the Flathead platform I personally feel that almost any cam choice has a lesser effect on the overall HP numbers than the correct pistons/rings. This is my own take on this subject on these "street" type builds.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The ONLY way I could agree with enough power gains, on the Flathead platform, to have a substantial "seat-of-the-pants" feeling would be by the addition of a blower/turbo! You will then "feel" it, "been there, done it"!!
 
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