gear down problems

S

Sly

Member
Hi,

with my 1928 Tudor (new engine, new clutch) it is possible to gear up when you start driving with double-clutch.

But when I am in the 3rd or 2 nd gear it is not possible to gear down without really "violating the the toothwheels" in the transmission :confused:

The transmission only allows to gear down when I nearly stopped the car.

so why does it work to gear up with doubel-clutch, but not the same way down?

Stefan
 
do you have the proper type and amount of oil in the transmission? the fluid type (600w - not 600 weight) is essential for proper transmission function. It needs the thick lube to slow the gears down when you shift.
 
When you release the clutch in between gears on the way down, you have to rev the engine more than what you think you do, until you get use to it. It sounds like the engine is going to jump from under the bonnet, but it doesn't, and the next gear down slides in easily. If it's a stock or near stock A, there's really no need to drop into 1st if your still rolling, second is low enough.
 
...I use the modern version 140 w, that's what snyders in the Usa told me.

It is thick like honey more or less
 
yea that stuff works just fine. I was also thinking what Mr Dave in upside down land(hehe) said up there about having to rev the engine to get the RPM up before you downshift. Just like on up changes you have to let the rpm fall back down to prepare the gears for the next lower ratio.
 
thanks both for your feedback.

I think I tried that already, but as my english is not perfect, is the following the right way to gear down.

1. driving in 3rd gear
2. slowing down the car by releasing gas
3. pushing clutch
4. double-clutch by gas pedal
5. waiting engine goes down to idling rpm
6. shift down to 2nd gear
7. releasing clutch
 
Hi Dave,

do you mean with:

"you have to rev the engine more than what you think you do"

to rev up / runaway the engine ?
 
Sly said:
thanks both for your feedback.

I think I tried that already, but as my english is not perfect, is the following the right way to gear down.

1. driving in 3rd gear
2. slowing down the car by releasing gas
3. pushing clutch
4. double-clutch by gas pedal
5. waiting engine goes down to idling rpm
a) Increase Engine RPM
6. shift down to 2nd gear
7. releasing clutch
Click to expand...

Sly,

Increase the Engine RPM after you have the transmission in Neutral, you will have to get a feel for the range of RPM for it to work smoothly.

Depending on temperatures in your area, you may need to use the heavier fluid for easier shifting.


I am in Alaska and I use 85-140 Arctic Gear Lube, when it is cold it shifts easier, when it is warm it leaks more.

Darryl in Fairbanks
 
Try this:
3. Push clutch, shift to neutral and release gas
4. Release clutch
5. Increase rpm with clutch out and shift lever in neutral
6. depress clutch and shift to second.

The theory is to get the gears connected to the engine spinning at the same speed as the gears connected to the rear end.
It take practice, but you will get it.
 
I agree with the last couple of posts, but would add that you do not want to let the speed to drop very much after the REV before pushing down the clutch and shifting promptly into second.

I also found that it was handy to use the hand throttle to do the REV if you are, say making a turn and using the right foot for braking. Often takes three feet and four hands, but gets easier with practice !!!
 
Sly said:
Hi Dave,

do you mean with:

"you have to rev the engine more than what you think you do"

to rev up / runaway the engine ?
Click to expand...
Yes, some will only rev up the engine with a light touch on the accelerator, but you have to be a bit more aggressive. As others have stated, don't let the engine revs drop down before pushing the clutch in whilst in neutral and engaging second gear. It's all practice, and after a while, it will be second nature and you will not even be thinking about it when it's happening.
 
Sly said:
thanks both for your feedback.

I think I tried that already, but as my english is not perfect, is the following the right way to gear down.

1. driving in 3rd gear
2. slowing down the car by releasing gas
3. pushing clutch
4. double-clutch by gas pedal
5. waiting engine goes down to idling rpm
6. shift down to 2nd gear
7. releasing clutch
Click to expand...

Sly,

In step 4, you have to have the transmission in neutral and clutch not out. The idea is to have the gears moving in the transmission at a speed that is the same as if you were in the gear you want to be in (second gear).

Revving the engine by the gas petal with the clutch out will not work.

Marc
 
Just for fun the amount of gas you give your engine is dependent on the car's speed.
You might want to practice at lower speeds. You can go into first with practice.
I think it's worth mentioning I grew up with sports car and double clutching a 4 speed with "closer" ratio gears is nothing like an A.

Third gear is from 15-18 MPH up. I never downshift into second above 15mph, i.e down shift toward the bottom of the gears range (otherwise what's the point).
I don't wind gears out in a Model A up or down unless I gotta. Maybe I drive differently than most.
 
The gent is trying to downshift with the same double clutching procedure as up shifting,letting the engine go to and idle before getting into the next higher gear,he is having a little difficulty understanding that the oppisite is what is needed to downshift.
I'll try to put a step by step procedure on down shifting for you,I'm sure that it has been covered here in Ford Barn several times but we'll try it again.
Transmission in 3rd gear
clutch in
trans to neutral
clutch out
rev up engine slightly,you will get the feel after a bit
clutch in
move lever to 2nd
keep the engine revs up don't let them drop after you have gone to 2nd gear this will translate to a smooth movement .
As was explained in an above post the reving of the engine in downshifting is to bring the moving mass of gears up to the same speed as the rest of the drivetrain.
 
ABento said:
The gent is trying to downshift with the same double clutching procedure as up shifting,letting the engine go to and idle before getting into the next higher gear,he is having a little difficulty understanding that the oppisite is what is needed to downshift.
I'll try to put a step by step procedure on down shifting for you,I'm sure that it has been covered here in Ford Barn several times but we'll try it again.
Transmission in 3rd gear
clutch in
trans to neutral
clutch out
rev up engine slightly,you will get the feel after a bit
clutch in
move lever to 2nd
keep the engine revs up don't let them drop after you have gone to 2nd gear this will translate to a smooth movement .
As was explained in an above post the reving of the engine in downshifting is to bring the moving mass of gears up to the same speed as the rest of the drivetrain.
Click to expand...

A lot of great information here, but you can let go of the myth that you need to double clutch while shifting up. You can double clutch, you can blink you eyes 10 times or do any other thing that will burn up the few seconds your engine needs to bleed off rpm so you can go into the higher gear. The key is to wait just a bit and let the magic work. You need to double clutch going from a higher gear to a lower one, but not the other way around.

You may have some mechanical problems with your car, or just a set up problem, (engine idle too high, clutch not set up with enough free play, etc.) so ask around your club (if you have one) and see if anyone there is good at the double clutch trick, have them give your car a try and see if it is technique or a mechanical problem.
 
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Observe a little KID, PRETENDING he's driving your car. Just DUPLICATE the sounds he makes, as he's downshifting, & you can become a MASTER at downshifting!!!
Gregg could downshift his peddle car from HIGH to SECOND at 55MPH, WITHOUT even a gear "CRUNCH"!! (GOD! I miss him.)
Bill W.
 
I guess am getting old, as I agree with Mr. Williamson again. My Chris could shift his tricycle up and down without using a clutch.

I can shift the 5-speed in our 5-ton silage truck up and down without the clutch, but I double de-clutch up and down in my Model A in deference to its age. I do not want to shave more metal off the gears than necessary.

Going down (if you will pardon the expression) my routine is:-

Clutch disengaged, shift to neutral
Foot off clutch pedal, rev up engine
Clutch disengaged, shift to lower gear - gently push on gear lever as the revs drop until it slips into gear.

Shifting up or down, double declutching, single de-clutching or no clutching do not hurry or force the gear lever. It should just slide gently into the next gear.

This works for 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st. Although I cannot see why anyone needs to go from 2nd to 1st while moving.
 
There is a youtube video from jack blam on the art of double clutching... like a golf swing, it takes a while to learn..
 
Downshifting does take some time to learn.

Think of it this way, just to be different.

Feel and listen to what the car sounds/feels like in 2nd while going 15,20 and 25mph. Then when you feel the need to downshift at whichever speed you're going, make the engine sound/feel like that speed in second. After a decade or so you'll get used to it.

Just get used to this from 3rd to 2nd first before even trying it from 2nd to 1st. That great big flywheel really doesn't need first gear anyway. If you're just barely moving, 2nd is still fine.
 
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