Gaskets 101, advice?

3

30 Closed Cab PU

Well-known member
Recently had a valve job due to bad head gasket, mechanic ordered a gasket kit and separate head gasket. Ordered separate head gasket so he would know what he was getting.


He warned me he was not happy with the exhaust manifold gasket, we tried it anyway, only lasted 100 miles or so before it blew out in 2 places, visible with naked eye. So he replaced it with a gasket he made from material he knew was good. He warrantied his work, did not cost me anything.


I have seen various materials/venders. Paper, cork, copper, etc.


For future reference (immediate responses not needed), what is best used for each motor gasket? Tips on installation? Head, Carb, coolant inlet/outlet, water pump, oil pan, main seal, anything else I am missing.


Couple of Ex's;


Use cork on oil pan, anaerobic gasket sealer on pan side only so pan can easily be removed and gasket reused (and to avoid scraping the block if it was sealed on the block), torque evenly only tight enough to seal, then when satisfied leak free remove bolts one at a time and add non permanent Loctite and replace bolts.


Head gasket - copper, spray with copper sealant. Torque in sequence cold. Run and re-torque, repeat run and re-torque 2- 3 more times.


And yes, tried searching for a couple of hours for this info, would be nice if the info is in one thread, could not easily find concise info.


Thanks
 
The exhaust and intake need to be dead flat where they bolt to the block or the gasket will let go.
 
You can take the intake and exhaust manifold and have them machined flat while bolted together. That's what I did. Not a problem with leaks after that.
 
jwilliams81 said:
You can take the intake and exhaust manifold and have them machined flat while bolted together. That's what I did. Not a problem with leaks after that.
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Thanks for the feedback, that was done, both intake and exhaust manifolds were replaced/leaking 5 years ago because the originals were too far out of tolerance. My mechanic was not happy with the exhaust during recent valve job, so replaced it again, his 1st replacement gasket material was extremely rigid, but was not metal.
 
I buy copper ones from A&L----- I don't machine them together, I like a little space between them to keep the intake cooler, the bolts holding the manifolds together just for show

The pan gasket goes to the block first, tucked into the groove on rear main cap, the cork strip goes on over the tucked in pan gasket---- how do you do that if the gasket is glued to the pan?

No locktite---- new lock washers

Why a valve job "because " of a head gasket???
 
Thanks, I have not tried the method I suggested, was told about it. When I drop the pan will keep your method in mind.


Head gasket definitely bad - white powdery stuff where head and block mate, terrible compression readings all over the place between the 4 cylinders, when head pulled it was blown. This was on a truck stored for 50 years in outbuildings.
 
If you leave-out or loose the 2 bolts connecting the intake manifold to the exhaust manifold, there is no need to machine the manifolds flat. Doing this results in a gap between the hot spot surfaces, and increases cold weather warmup of the carburetor.


The exhaust manifold gasket must be metal to withstand exhaust gas temperatures. Also, the gland rings protect the gasket from burning. Be sure each gland ring, when installed, has a gap at its ends of 0.06" minimum to allow for expansion.


The large washers that bear against the intake & exhaust manifolds are actually cupped so they are springs. OEM washers were actually made from leaf spring stock. The concave cup faces inward. Do not torque the washers flat.


The clamp supporting the muffler pipe needs to allow the pipe to move through it, and to twist in it to account for thermal expansion of the pipe, and twisting of the car's frame. If the pipe is tight in the clamp, the exhaust manifold will experience excessive stresses at its bend. The excess stress leads to warping and eventually cracking of the manifold.
 
Bob Bidonde said:
If you leave-out or loose the 2 bolts connecting the intake manifold to the exhaust manifold, there is no need to machine the manifolds flat. Doing this results in a gap between the hot spot surfaces, and increases cold weather warmup of the carburetor.


The exhaust manifold gasket must be metal to withstand exhaust gas temperatures. Also, the gland rings protect the gasket from burning. Be sure each gland ring, when installed, has a gap at its ends of 0.06" minimum to allow for expansion.


The large washers that bear against the intake & exhaust manifolds are actually cupped so they are springs. OEM washers were actually made from leaf spring stock. The concave cup faces inward. Do not torque the washers flat.


The clamp supporting the muffler pipe needs to allow the pipe to move through it, and to twist in it to account for thermal expansion of the pipe, and twisting of the car's frame. If the pipe is tight in the clamp, the exhaust manifold will experience excessive stresses at its bend. The excess stress leads to warping and eventually cracking of the manifold.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the great info, will pass this on to my mechanic, ensure this is what he did. The gasket in the original kit was not metal, or at least did not look like metal, to an untrained eye(me) it look like it actually cracked and spread, gap was about 1/16th of an inch. Not sure what material he put in second time.


This is another example why I would not attempt to do these things myself. Looks straightforward/easy, but not necessarily so. Gotta know your limits, mine are pretty low.


Thanks again.
 
There is some great information in Bob Bidonde's post #7! Call it Manifold 101 in a nutshell.
 
Bob Bidonde said:
If you leave-out or loose the 2 bolts connecting the intake manifold to the exhaust manifold, there is no need to machine the manifolds flat. Doing this results in a gap between the hot spot surfaces, and increases cold weather warmup of the carburetor.


The exhaust manifold gasket must be metal to withstand exhaust gas temperatures. Also, the gland rings protect the gasket from burning. Be sure each gland ring, when installed, has a gap at its ends of 0.06" minimum to allow for expansion.


The large washers that bear against the intake & exhaust manifolds are actually cupped so they are springs. OEM washers were actually made from leaf spring stock. The concave cup faces inward. Do not torque the washers flat.


The clamp supporting the muffler pipe needs to allow the pipe to move through it, and to twist in it to account for thermal expansion of the pipe, and twisting of the car's frame. If the pipe is tight in the clamp, the exhaust manifold will experience excessive stresses at its bend. The excess stress leads to warping and eventually cracking of the manifold.
Click to expand...



Hi Bob,


Hope it is not me too much to ask you to provide similar info on other gaskets? Your previous answer was clear/concise/left no questions. No hurry for the info, for future reference.


Head, Carb, coolant inlet/outlet, water pump, oil pan, Intake, main seal, anything else I am missing.


Know I am asking a lot, trying to have info, kinda like the doctors credo - do no harm.


Thanks.
 
30 Closed Cab PU said:
Recently had a valve job due to bad head gasket, mechanic ordered a gasket kit and separate head gasket. Ordered separate head gasket so he would know what he was getting.


He warned me he was not happy with the exhaust manifold gasket, we tried it anyway, only lasted 100 miles or so before it blew out in 2 places, visible with naked eye. So he replaced it with a gasket he made from material he knew was good. He warrantied his work, did not cost me anything.


I have seen various materials/venders. Paper, cork, copper, etc.


For future reference (immediate responses not needed), what is best used for each motor gasket? Tips on installation? Head, Carb, coolant inlet/outlet, water pump, oil pan, main seal, anything else I am missing.


Couple of Ex's;


Use cork on oil pan, anaerobic gasket sealer on pan side only so pan can easily be removed and gasket reused (and to avoid scraping the block if it was sealed on the block), torque evenly only tight enough to seal, then when satisfied leak free remove bolts one at a time and add non permanent Loctite and replace bolts.


Head gasket - copper, spray with copper sealant. Torque in sequence cold. Run and re-torque, repeat run and re-torque 2- 3 more times.


And yes, tried searching for a couple of hours for this info, would be nice if the info is in one thread, could not easily find concise info.


Thanks
Click to expand...

Yes on using the copper spray sealant. I coat the head gasket with 3 light coats allowing time for the solvents to flash off between coats. Wait until it's good and tacky between coats and just prior to installation. Do not allow it to dry fully before installation.
 
Sounds like he is using the hard fiber manifold gasket(s) that come in the kit. Should be using one of the metal or copper faced ones with gland rings. The hard fiber heat proof ones are not know to last very long before they burn out.
 
Yes, mechanic used the one in the kit, looked like it was just a slightly flexible fiber board, no metal, no reinforcement within the material. When removed, it was brittle enough where you could easily break of a small piece.


Since this kit has this poor gasket, are the other gaskets in the kit poor quality and/or have issues too?


This is why I am asking for gaskets 101 info. What are best gaskets to be used at all gaskets on the motor. Don't want to breakdown because of something as silly/minor as doing/using wrong materials and methods.
 
This is an older post, but I think Mr. Bidonde is referring to the tailpipe end which is allowed to slide thru the frame clamp. (Not a reference to the manifold to muffler up pipe that is clamped with brass nuts. These can loosen over time and may need to be re-tightened.)
 
Why the exhaust gaskets burn in the first place? Manual timing .. it’s impossible to have proper timing in all rpm ranges manually, it’s why Ford went to mechanical advance with the “new and improved” 4cylinder of 1932..proper timing, increased compression and more fuel all help the engine run efficiently, which yields a cooler running engine.. sounds crazy that hopping it up yields a cooler running engine, but it does..
 
Use the metal manifold gasket, as mentioned above. Use the concave washers and toque the nuts to 55 ft-lbs. Bring the torque up in 10 ft-lbs increments. Re torque after initial run and when you re torque the head nuts. Use antifreeze on the studs and nuts, which goes for the head studs and nuts too. Finger tight the studs.

I have had the best luck with the Best brand graphite head gasket and the copper spray adhesive.

For the rest of the gaskets, I use the paper ones with a very little bit RTV silicone. I very light film of oil on the surfaces will keep the silicone from sticking and makes disassembly easier. The old time racers would use grease as a gasket sealer as the engines were disassembled after each race. I do not use a gasket under the goose neck (water outlet), just a dab of silicone RTV. The gasket here can crack the goose neck ears. The pan just be flat. If cork gaskets have been used in the past, the bolt holes can be deformed and must be hammered flat.
 
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Flathead said:
The exhaust and intake need to be dead flat where they bolt to the block or the gasket will let go.
Click to expand...

That's fine if you can do it but on our last outback trip, the manifold on my car stated to leak. Chuff, Chuff, Chuff! After two attempts to fix it by making another gasket on the running board and both failing after a short distance, I gave up and drove on. It was about 3,000 miles later that I had the chance to fix it properly. When I removed the manifold, I found why my "running board" fixes failed. There was a piece of the original gasket that I couldn't get to. That caused the "new" gasket to fail and the manifold to warp so much it was OBVIOUS to the naked eye. There were no facilities within a thousand miles to have it machined flat so I filed it close. I used the edge draw bar on the camper as a straight edge and still settled for "close". After properly cleaning the side of the block, I fitted a new metal gasket, did everything up and drove the remaining 2,000 miles home. That engine is now in another car and still going just fine (and quietly).
IMO, we over think too much with these cars.
 
Bob Bidonde said:
The exhaust manifold gasket must be metal to withstand exhaust gas temperatures. Also, the gland rings protect the gasket from burning. Be sure each gland ring, when installed, has a gap at its ends of 0.06" minimum to allow for expansion.


The late '31 2 piece gaskets were evidently metal core with asbestos comp material on both sides of the core. The earlier non- drop down coppers the asbestos core was between the copper lending to metal to metal contact. Why the change may have been better sealing with the asbestos comp. material facing the block and manifold. Today's 1 piece Felpro version with steel outer perf. sheet , the comp material against the block seems to hold up ok.
Click to expand...
 
Could someone tell me what exhaust manifold gland rings are? I'm guessing they might bridge the gap between manifold and block. My engine doesn't have any such thing.
 
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