Gas Tank Date on Firewall question...

BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
Yep, I agree it IS the firewall and this is part of why I posed the Q above.
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So if the tank was all welded up and pressure tested and judge good, the test date could be stamped on the firewall by slipping the tank over a support bar, in behind the firewall, and stamp away, before the tank was installed in a car. This would be harder to do when it was on the car.
 
Jim/TX said:
So if the tank was all welded up and pressure tested and judge good, the test date could be stamped on the firewall by slipping the tank over a support bar, in behind the firewall, and stamp away, before the tank was installed in a car. This would be harder to do when it was on the car.
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It is my belief that all assembled tanks (well not all tanks that has been proven) were stamped on it's firewall with a date BEFORE they left the gas tank assembly building at Dearborn and after they were pressure tested.

Once this was done, they were treated, say like an engine, and sent to the varrious assembly plants for assembly onto the body. Like some engines, some tanks may not have been assembled to the body until 1-2 months later after arival at the assembly plant...maybe with a later engine...maybe with an earlier engine than the date of the tank OR sometimes with the same date as engine stamping.

The purpose of the original question was just to see if that statement was well understood by all. With just the statement "the date of manufacture" within the sentence, are we talking "the date of manufacture" of the tank itself OR are we talking "the date of manufacture" of the car or truck as a complete vehicle. As a newbie who reads such a statement, it would have them wondering and maybe should of been spelled out more clearly.

Yes, gas tank dates/firewall dates are one of my pet peeves in this hobby. I think we all would like to know just exactly why they were put there in the first place instead of guessing and assuming the reason as to why but I think we are close to our assumptions along with the when, where, and how.

Most of the dates and senarios that I have listed on my site start in May of 1928 and end in August 1929...there has been no September 1929 dates recorded to my knowledge. It is quite an interesting study.

Pluck
 
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The stamped dates and numbers didn't seem to be uniform as my Tudor has date stamp of 1-02-29, stamped upside down.
 
Roadster62 said:
The Murray Fordor cowl I picked up last weekend has 5-10-29, lightly stamped. Did Ford install the tanks on the Fordor bodies Briggs and Murray supplied? This cowl is for a 60-C or later Fordor, it has the unique soldered on visor. Bob
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I am going out on "A" limb here but I think Ford supplied both Briggs and Murray with the tanks FIRST and thus the Briggs and Murrary bodies were built around them...My God, if they were off just a little bit when those bodies arrived at an assembly plant 1200 miles away, there surly would be heck to pay.

Pluck
 
"From mid 1928 through September 1929, the date of manufacture was stamped into the firewall on the left side".

Pluck - So, If I'm reading your latest comment correctly, you are suggesting that we all bear in mind that the date-stamp ( if any) refers to date of TANK manufacture, and not necessarily vehicle assembly date ?

And that the statement in the JS be revised accordingly ?All of which sounds good to me... :)

SC Frank
 
walt jones said:
My 1929 Tudor has engine and frame number 1040640. Indicating from Steve's charts that the motor was built Feb 13 1929. The date on the upper left of the gas tank is 6 26 29. I have no idea why there is such a wide variation between these dates. Possibly the tank is a replacement. Another anomoly is that the tail light bracket is for the drum tail light. Numbers in front of the seat indicate that the car was built at TC the Twin Cities Plant. Many things could have happened to this car in the 84 years since it was built. I will probably never solve this mystery but I'd like to.
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The tail light would be correct for that car.. the Drum style was used up to March 1929.. As for the fire wall ??...
 
Timothy Kelly said:
Steve:

Thanks for adding the comment mentioning that no September 1929 dates have been recorded.

I wonder why, if no September 1929 dates have been recorded, the Judging Standards would make reference to September 1929 instead of August 1929. Are there by chance some engineering prints dated September 1929 that suggest that gas tank dating be discontinued?

Timothy
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Tim,

That my friend is the $64,000.00 question...Is there ANYTHING on any of the drawings of the A-9002 tank assembly, or parts making up the assembly (as the firewall section), suggesting the stamping of dates on the tank assembly?

If I were nearer the archives, you bet this is one area I would love to explore. We could ask ourselves also is there any reference to "dates" on the assembly with drawings preceding the May 1928 start.

I believe there is an answer to this delima so as we can do away with all of our assumtions and put this mystery to rest once and for all but where I have no idea and neither does anyone else unless they are sitting on the answer themselves.

I think there were two other dates, way outside the range of the May 28/August 29 dates that have been seen. The late Roger Kauffman told me of one.

But here again, like anything else, we need more data from original, unmolested, assembled vehicles to figure this thing out just a little more.

Update...Most of the dates for which I have recorded range from May 31, 1928 through August 23, 1929. However there were some reported in The Restorer many years ago, not sure if they were typos or what but those dates were 9/20/29; 11/9/29; and 12/6/29 and those were on Station Wagons only. Those that Roger reported on were in late 1927 and very early in 1928...I can not explain those.

"In an other independent study by Roger Kauffman, our prestegious Technical Chairman, as he
has recorded some early tanks with the dates on them. One of which is a car that has “10 12 27”
stamped on the tank and has an engine number of A390, which was stamped on November 7,
1927 and was one of twenty-two stamped engines sent to the finial assembly line at Fordson (the
Rouge) on that day also. Three other dated tanks for which he has seen are a December 1927;​
an early January 1928 and a March 1928".
If you can prove any dates before May 31, 1928 and after August 23, 1929, please let me know.

Pluck
 
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Special Coupe Frank said:
"From mid 1928 through September 1929, the date of manufacture was stamped into the firewall on the left side".

Pluck - So, If I'm reading your latest comment correctly, you are suggesting that we all bear in mind that the date-stamp ( if any) refers to date of TANK manufacture, and not necessarily vehicle assembly date ? Yes, that is what I am suggesting, and mind you, that suggestion is still an assumtion untill proven differently.

And that the statement in the JS be revised accordingly ? It would be nice but it ain't going to happen All of which sounds good to me... :)

Pluck

SC Frank
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Pluck
 
Our 29 coupe has an October 1928 stamp on the firewall but the title says 1929. We've always wondered what the situation was with it. I guess now we know. My father bought it from the original owner fourty something years ago, so I doubt the tank had ever been changed out. Very helpful post. New member here. We've a 29 Special Coupe. He's turned me loose on it (FINALLY). So we are about to start the restore.
 
My '29 stationwagon has a fuel tank date of 6-7-29, and the engine number indicates a build date of 6-11-29.
I'm guessin' the date on the tank is the tank's date rather than the car's build date, as it predates the engine number.
I haven't seen the frame number, but the VIN matches the engine number and I believe this car has never been disassembled.
 
My 29 Tudor is stamped, but it is upside down and hard to read well. I think the "upside down" aspect is evidence the tank would have been stamped while off the car.
Brian in Wheeling
 
It would be kind of hard to stamp all that number at one time, with out backing up the stamp from the back side of the fire wall. So I think it was done during manufacturing on a stamping machine.
 
I'm not much into research,but I had one stamped upside down too.How could somebody possibly stamp the tank numbers upside down,and right to left,by accident while on the car?They would have to stand on the tank on their knees,looking down over it to do that.I agree with the backup thing too,try stamping that metal unsupported from behind.The stamp just bounces back at you.Look at the numbers on frame rails.If they are near the outside,near the vertical part the numbers are pretty good.If they are near the edge they are fainter,and deep at the edge toward the flange and shallow nearer the raw edge.
 
Did all assembly plants stamp the firewall/gas tank? I assume so, but if not the dating could be of help in finding out where ones car was built.
 
lance leblanc said:
I have looked for this stamp on my tank several times, is it on a metal plate or dirrectly on the tank? I have a small plate tacked on the left side but there is nothing ledgable there either. Can someone post a pic?
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Left side from the driver's perspective... that tag you mentioned is on the right side of the firewall (but on the left side if you look at it from the front of the car). The date is usually fairly faint, and may be filled in with paint.
 
smurph said:
Did all assembly plants stamp the firewall/gas tank? I assume so, but if not the dating could be of help in finding out where ones car was built.
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It is thought that the stamping of the gas tanks were done at Dearborn in the gas tank assembly area after the tanks were tested.

Once stamped, then they were sent to the various assembly plants to be assembled on the body's that were coming down the assembly line.

This stamping of the gas tanks is one of the biggest mysteries of the Model A Ford production because there has been absolutly no definitive data to tell us just when, where and why they were stamped in the first place.

Why were they stamped up-side-down?...Probably because they were positioned differently at the stamp machine area.

Right now it is all spculation.

Pluck who is still hot on the trail to find out the when, where and why.
 
A theory -

I found this photo of a firewall stamping that may have some clues about upside down numbers. It looks to me, from the extra markings around the numbers, that there was a stamping 'device' that the numbers loaded into. That part of the firewall on the tank was easily accessible before the tank was installed, so more easily stamped.

It would seem easy for a new guy, or a tired guy to load the numbers into the device upside down since the orientation may not have been obvious while the device was open for loading.

-DAN
 

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On a related number stamping from the factory, I saw a generator band date, such as K7 (July 1930) where the number was upside down from the letter next to it.
 
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