gas lines

1

12cliff23

Member
I was looking at some pics. in HRD today and noticed at least one of a gas line that was copper. just searched and found a thread about running a line for a f1
one of the responses was. Don't use copper use steel. I thought the copper might be easier to run and cooler looking around the carb.
sooo wonder what this can of worms will be
cliff
 
The stock early Ford lines were copper plated steel.
Steel is better, but I've used just copper for ever And not had a problem. Infact over here (UK) copper was/is used extensively for many years. If supported correctly there's no problem. Vibration is apparently the killer with copper, as it work hardens and can crack. However the tiny little Austin Seven, which is very flexible and vibrates pretty much everywhere at some point in its rpm range, used copper for its fuel line, seems to survive 80 years ok.
Most of the Americans on here will insist you use steel.
Your choice.
Martin.
 
The other alternative for copper is "cupro", mostly used for brake pipes, but also for fuel, it is a copper/nickle composition
 
The problem with copper is that it "work hardens" and becomes brittle and eventually cracks, especially if it is subject to vibrations from "dangling" around and not being fixed in place. A particularly bad example is running a copper fuel line between a firewall and a fuel pump or carburetor. The engine vibrations will cause work hardening.

The bottom line is that copper is generally frowned upon as a fuel line.
 
I wouldn't run any metal line that runs between the firewall and the fuel pump/carb. A flex line is the only thing I would use.

Mike51Merc said:
The problem with copper is that it "work hardens" and becomes brittle and eventually cracks, especially if it is subject to vibrations from "dangling" around and not being fixed in place. A particularly bad example is running a copper fuel line between a firewall and a fuel pump or carburetor. The engine vibrations will cause work hardening.

The bottom line is that copper is generally frowned upon as a fuel line.
Click to expand...
 
My personal and limited observations:

Between firewall and and the fuel pump I've never seen anything except a flex gas line (all car makes).

Right or wrong, between an engine mounted pump and carb, I've not seen anything but copper. There's comparatively little vibration and an advantage with copper is that when changing carbs, its a little easier to change the configuration of the line.

Of course one could wonder about the quality of various copper tubing.
 
I have run copper for 25 years ,Maybe not all copper is equal .if its to the carb you can get the copper compressing at the olive from frequent removals and they leak ,so not recommended , ted.
 
There's a reason why you won't find plain copper fuel lines on any new car or truck and why Ford in particular has used steel lines all the way back to the beginning. An engine compartment fire will ruin your day or perhaps beyond.

While no doubt there were many reasons for its demise, it has been a very long time since one could buy a new Austin.
 
Yes, I get that David, my point was the copper fuel lines on them have lasted 80+ years. Supported properly it works.
As for more modern stuff, l suspect a big reason copper lost favour is cost. Steel is much cheaper and plastic much much cheaper.
Not all changes in materials are because the replacement material is better, just cheaper. That's why copper and brass radiators went to aluminium then to New stuff that's plastic tanks with aluminium cores. Copper and brass rads cool better, but they cost more.
I'm not saying copper is a better material than steel for a fuel line, just that it works. The copper/nickel blend stuff is possibly the nicest, strong like steel but much easier to form to shape.
Martin.
 
Are you sure that the Austin fuel lines were straight copper and not Bundy tubing which is copper-plated double-walled steel tubing (which was what Ford used in the era)? That tubing is way more expensive than either straight copper, copper nickel, or plain or plated steel.

Also, how likely is it that we'd hear from anyone who experienced a fire resulting from the use of straight copper lines as perhaps they would be either embarrassed (having burned up their car and maybe their garage and house to boot) or dead?
 
Yes David, straight copper, I've worked on a few of these stupid little cars at varying points of restoration, and all had/have straight copper fuel line.
I know Ford over here also used the Bundy tube on our stuff, but Austin was just copper.
I'd have thought that we would have heard of failures, folk are quite happy to shout when "the previous owner did this" or "stupid mechanic fitted this"
There are lots of folk using it without issues, I've not seen a failure of copper tube in service, but have seen rust out in steel bundy that caused a failure.
Like I said, not better, but an easyer to fit alternative.
Martin.
 
I use the cupro nickel (Kunifer) tubing, but have also used a heavy wall copper tubing. I bought some copper fuel pipes from an early ford supplier in then USA just to get the brass fittings. The copper tube on those was much thinner than the UK sourced pipe. The pipe I used is supplied specifically as brake pipe. FWIW the 33 coupe I bought a few years ago from the USA had copper pipes installed when converted to Hydraulics in the 50s. If it's well supported and not vibrating there shouldn't be a problem.

I will make it clear though I would only ever use the UK sourced heavy wall stuff marketed as brake pipe or genuine kunifer. I wouldn't dream of using the thin wall copper as I found on the USA sourced fuel pipes. The fuel pipes were to go from the pump to the carb.

Mart.
 
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My grandfather left me numerous rolls of copper tubing and fittings in every possible size. He was a truck mechanic from the 1920s through the 1970s. They used copper for air brakes, fuel lines, and everything else that needed plumbing. Yes, it apparently worked then, but my understanding is that it is not "legal" (however that is defined) for fuel use today.

I've used it for some stuff like transmission cooling lines and hard vacuum lines (since I have it on hand), but I still won't use it for gasoline. For a couple of bucks there's galvanized steel lines at the nearest auto parts store.
 
Mart,
That's interesting, it appears that when we (brits) talk about copper tubing, it's different to the US understood copper tubing.
Which is probably why we can't believe why they are so against using it, and why they can't believe that we do.
Thanks for that,
Martin.
 
Going by the fuel that's produced these days I would not use any thing other than copper (that's a Quality brand ) for cars that sit around the Fuel takes on moister and attacks fuel pumps and tanks causing rust ,so attacking the fuel line is up there . Ted
 
If you are restoring a car and want it authentic then the steel copper coat is most likely desirable ,I just wouldn't use it my self only on the carb to pump .Because brass is softer than steel you get a good compression on the olive seal were as against copper a few removals and you end up cutting 1/2 of to move the olive back for a fresh seal ,(this I just did for a customers car ,came in with copper FL) .If you are storing a car for long period then pumping out the tank is the way to go ,Ted
 
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