Fun With Asphaltum Paint!

gwhite

gwhite

Senior Member
Although my interest primarily lies in hot rods (I'm building an early 40's style T RPU on an A chassis), closely approximating many of Ford's factory finishes is extremely important to me for an 'authentic' feel.

My thirst for accuracy has led me to experiment with asphaltum paint - the dozen or so commercially available chassis paints just look 'wrong' to my eye and none seem to match the remnants of undisturbed paint I uncovered beneath the motor mount plates.

Here's my first spray out, generally following Ford's Model T-era Gilsonite recipe (specification M-101/102). I mixed 2/3 cups of asphaltum Japan straight out of the can with 3 tbs of mineral spirits, 2 tbs of japan drier, and 2 tbs of turpentine. 2 coats were very lightly misted on with a troublesome Preval sprayer (about 10 min between coats).
10725134_454661074662808_1193765805_n.jpg


The Preval's tendency to sputter made it extremely difficult to avoid runs (although the few I had 'flowed' out almost immediately). I probably need to cut the mineral spirits by 1 tbs and add an additional tbs of turpentine to reduce the sheen slightly. The japan drier helped immensely; paint was dry to the touch within 5 min and able to be handled after 15.

My experience with this stuff (straight out of the can) is that the shine is reduced by 20% or so after a full cure, so I'm going to leave the test panel out in the sun for a few days to see what happens. In the meantime, I'm going to adjust the mixture and try again with a proper gun.

Will post updates here for those interested.
 
I also did a second test panel - wet sanded, polished, and buffed after baking at 300* for an hour. Shown here (right) against a mint original 17-23 T hood (also cut, polished, and buffed) for comparison. An exact match in every way.

img_20141015_084117097-jpg.2738877
 
I knew Mason would be in on this one. I'm curious where you got the Asphaltum or Gilsonite? Also the semantics may get a bit confusing so let's not be afraid to ask for clarifications.
I used SW CC-F3A S6N44 which is titled Gilsonite. I use it on the wood form my body wood...recommended reducer is Naptha. I believe you can call the product sheet up using the S64N44 code.
Your results are impressive...I cannot understand the context of the comparison photo graph and would like to see you take it from a bit further away...are those the reflections of condos in the right side?
 
Jim,

The base paint is Liberty on the Hudson's "Black Japanning Asphaltum". Based on my correspondence with them, it is composed primarily of asphaltum, linseed oil, and naphtha. I added japan drier and turpentine (drier to aid in dry time and turp to thin/reduce gloss) along with some mineral spirits to reduce it.

swo4rd,

I'm very interested in the Sherwin Williams Gilsonite...I was told by my local paint "pro" that Gilsonite was no longer commercially available. Unfortunately, the paint I'm using is standard asphaltum, but not the Utah-derivaitive (Gilsonite) Henry specified. Would be very interested in obtaining the genuine article!

For clarification, the test panel shows the reflections of my neighbors homes...it's the triangular -shaped piece to the right. The larger panel is the original Model T hood with a 5" (or so) patch cut, polished, and buffed.

As I compounded each panel I noticed that the 'residue' on my terry cloth pad was identical in color - a warm brown, approximating the color of oxidized rubber.

Will get better photos soon.
 
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better photos;

full


full


I never had any intention of trying to match Ford's body paint (the goal was to replicate asphaltum chassis finish), but it's
surprisingly close. One thing I have noticed is that my test panel has a slight amber cast compared to the original paint
(might not be evident in the photos). Trent Boggess' article on Model T paint mentions that some of Ford's body paint was
"fortified" with Prussian blue and ultramarine blue - likely the difference I'm seeing.

Not sure if you can make it out in the photos, but the original T hood has some dust trapped in the paint - in some
spots, the paint almost looks metallic due to these inclusions. My test panel was painted in a less than sterile garage and
shows similar defects.
 
You may want to test your paint by exposure to sunlight. Without amber, copal or something similar the asphaltum may 'chalk'.
 
Will do, Jim...thanks for the tip(s).

I'll check on the resistance to gasoline & kerosene after I'm sure it's nice and cured (a week or so).

Just for the fun of it, I ordered some Prussian blue, ultramarine blue, and lamp black pigment to mix in. May end up painting my T body with this stuff if I can get a good match.

All suggestions welcome - I'm totally new to this stuff but eager to learn!
 
In the phonograph restoration hobby a few people have experimented with asphaltum paint and arrived at the same results I would like t see that in person keep at it!
 
I like modified Model As myself. Will slip in a dropped axle and hydraulic brakes here and there. Should we be communicating on H.A.M.B instead of the "By God, how it was in the first place/how it should be now site?" Your thirst for accuracy is admirable, I suppose, but aren't you a bit over the top? The Rolling Stones have pointed out that "Black Is Black." You can get it satin or shiny in a spray can. Of course, I do not thirst for accuracy, so perhaps I err in judgment. But can a judge say, "Hey, that's asphaltum! Way to go!" Black is black.
 
Lorenzo said:
I like modified Model As myself. Will slip in a dropped axle and hydraulic brakes here and there. Should we be communicating on H.A.M.B instead of the "By God, how it was in the first place/how it should be now site?" Your thirst for accuracy is admirable, I suppose, but aren't you a bit over the top? The Rolling Stones have pointed out that "Black Is Black." You can get it satin or shiny in a spray can. Of course, I do not thirst for accuracy, so perhaps I err in judgment.

But can a judge say, "Hey, that's asphaltum! Way to go!"
Yes

 Black is black.
Click to expand...
No

Darryl in Fairbanks
 
Lorenzo, yeah it's over the top, but I'm not building this car for the masses or car show judges; I'm building it for me. It's "experimental history" - an opportunity to build what my grandfather would have built using the same components, technology, and materials. That's what matters most to me, that's why I strive for accuracy and sweat even the most minute details...not saying it's "the right way" - but it's my preferred way.

I shared this here because it is germane to Model A & T restoration (actually, Ford used a form of their "elastic Japan" on certain components well into the V8 era). I certainly respect the focus of this board, which is why my project is not documented on these virtual pages. I hope that whatever responses follow remain focused on the way Ford did it in the Model A era, as that was the spirit in which I posted to begin with.
 
From the info i've found, the first coats had lamp black (carbon) added. The top coat did not. I've also read that adding anything to the asphaltum makes it 'less black', even the lamp black....
 
@Lorenzo, nothing wrong with that...there's room to love these old Fords for all of us!

@Jim, I think you're spot-on. Re-reading the Trent Bogguss article he mentions that the base coat on M (later F) -101 paint had 1-3% lamp (carbon) black, while M (later F) -102 had none. F-101 was the base paint for hoods, running boards, and fenders and F-102 was the finish coat. (This is the finish on the hood pictured above)

Lamp black along with Prussian and ultramarine blues were added to F-160 which was an air-dry second coat (applied after primer) to fully upholstered car bodies. This was followed by F-162 "black rubbing varnish" (also air-dry).

Perhaps the small color variation between my sample and the hood has to do with the fact that I applied two thin coats directly to bare metal rather than a 'prime coat' with lamp black and a second coat without...I could also be seeing a difference between run of the mill asphaltum and true Gilsonite - or perhaps the reddish color of the Japan drier has an affect on the final product. Need to do more testing :)
 
Gilsonite

gwhite said:
I'm very interested in the Sherwin Williams Gilsonite...I was told by my local paint "pro" that Gilsonite was no longer commercially available. Unfortunately, the paint I'm using is standard asphaltum, but not the Utah-derivaitive (Gilsonite) Henry specified. Would be very interested in obtaining the genuine article!
Click to expand...

gwhite,

One manufacturer of Gilsonite paint is Rodda Paint Co. in Oregon. It is currently available in 55 gallon drums. I will try and call the factory in the morning and see if I can get a sample and if they or one of the stores might have some in a smaller quantity.

Gilsonite Dipping Enamel
Description:
An economical coating for the temporary protection of new iron or steel
that is subject to extreme abrasion conditions.
Basic Use:
For use where a conventional coating is worn away quickly after the part
is put into service such as drag chains, etc.

Product Data Sheet:
http://www.roddapaint.com/professional/product-data/33403.aspx

I have not located the MSDS for it yet, but I will continue searching.

Darryl in Fairbanks
 
Don't know how much it counts, Darryl, but I spent the summer of 1964 at 24 mile Chena Hot Springs Road. Homesteaders.
 
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