rustyparts
Member
Doe's anybody ad lead to the fuel? or we just don't need to.
Fuel
- Thread starter rustyparts
- Start date
Joe K
Well-known member
Tetra-ethyl lead was developed as compression ratios were increased and engines wanted to "knock." Its use was as anti-knock agent which allowed optimal timing without knock.
Not used during the Model A era with the low compression engines (relatively)
Since then we've gone from no real additive to Tetra-ethyl lead (found to transfer lead all over the driving environment) to MTBE (found to be a water pollution agent and transfers THROUGH the environment in groundwater), and now to Alcohol (which is highly water absorbent and can combine with atmospheric humidity, condense in your tank, and eventually rot out tank bottoms)
The use of "drygas" is essentially this same water affinity alcohol mechanism harnessed to create a mix which can go through your engine and be "burned" instead of creating slugs of water in the low spots which obstruct fuel flow in the carburetor. But use of Drygas tends to be singular to address a problem, and short lived considering throughput.
During the Model A era, there may have been SOME alcohol added to the fuel to stretch fuel stocks and get a head start on anti-knock - but the additive was by no means universal. So except for the universal part, what we burn now may be closer to what was available in 1930 than most appreciate.
MOST people I know don't like alcohol added fuel - it reduces mileage, can cause corrosion problems or issues with rubber seals, and is generally felt to be a "minus" to one's driving pleasure. Here is Cow Hampshire, non-leaded gas is NOT generally found at the pump although some marine fuel sources carry it. I'm not sure what the anti-knock agent is used this application - probably MTBE.
My mind goes to my uncle who had a Model A Ford he drove during WWII. With rationing, gasoline became scarce and expensive. So he rigged up a valve and tank and would start on gasoline, then switch the motor over to Kerosene when it was warm.
"It would knock a bit on Kero" he said. (No oxygenation additive.)
Joe K
Not used during the Model A era with the low compression engines (relatively)
Since then we've gone from no real additive to Tetra-ethyl lead (found to transfer lead all over the driving environment) to MTBE (found to be a water pollution agent and transfers THROUGH the environment in groundwater), and now to Alcohol (which is highly water absorbent and can combine with atmospheric humidity, condense in your tank, and eventually rot out tank bottoms)
The use of "drygas" is essentially this same water affinity alcohol mechanism harnessed to create a mix which can go through your engine and be "burned" instead of creating slugs of water in the low spots which obstruct fuel flow in the carburetor. But use of Drygas tends to be singular to address a problem, and short lived considering throughput.
During the Model A era, there may have been SOME alcohol added to the fuel to stretch fuel stocks and get a head start on anti-knock - but the additive was by no means universal. So except for the universal part, what we burn now may be closer to what was available in 1930 than most appreciate.
MOST people I know don't like alcohol added fuel - it reduces mileage, can cause corrosion problems or issues with rubber seals, and is generally felt to be a "minus" to one's driving pleasure. Here is Cow Hampshire, non-leaded gas is NOT generally found at the pump although some marine fuel sources carry it. I'm not sure what the anti-knock agent is used this application - probably MTBE.
My mind goes to my uncle who had a Model A Ford he drove during WWII. With rationing, gasoline became scarce and expensive. So he rigged up a valve and tank and would start on gasoline, then switch the motor over to Kerosene when it was warm.
"It would knock a bit on Kero" he said. (No oxygenation additive.)
Joe K
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Phil Brown
Well-known member
Where would you even get any to add to your fuel ?
Joe K
Well-known member
Various "Lead Substitutes" seem available. No lead no solvents.
https://www.amazon.com/Hapco-Products-Lead-Substitute-oz/dp/B01LXP5Q22/ref=sr_1_3?crid=NUE0J9DHAO6I&keywords=lead+fuel+additive&qid=1700335084&sprefix=Lead+fuel+%2Caps%2C157&sr=8-3
Note this one includes "octane enhancer" as in reduce knock.
The big attraction seems to be "prevents valve recession" - a minor advantage now almost prevented through the use of valve seats.
Joe K
Synchro909
Well-known member
By definition, a lead substitute is not lead and that is what the OP was asking about. That said, I assume the situation is the same over there as here. We have the choice of 10% ethanol fuel (87 octane), 91 octane non ethanol and (I think) 95 and 98 octane at every service station. None have lead. Model A compression ratios do not need even 87 octane.
I use a product that is added at the time of refuelling at the rate of 1 part in 1,000. That is 1 ml in a litre (my '29 Model A holds a max of 42-3 litres). It does nothing for octane rating but acts as an upper cylinder lubricant and stops valve seat recession. IMO, that is all you need. Lead is nasty stuff and is best left where nature put it - in the rocks.
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rustyparts
Member
Thanks for input, not needed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe K
Well-known member
Not totally. It seems certain population center counties in Cow Hampshire are ethanol portion - the "outliers" (Hill country) seem to have the possibility of leaded gasoline. I've been to both and can't remember ANY leaded fuel being available.
https://www.dot.nh.gov/services/fuel-distribution/available-fuels-and-fuel-system
I have seen it at the boat docks in Portsmouth, NH - but for boats. Some of my associates buy their chain-saw gas there as they think it affords more reliable chain saw operation.
I am told that some US "mid-country" places have a choice similar to yours - you take the next octane grade to get non-alcohol gasoline.
Maybe best to say "sources vary."
And plus one on the lead - "tailings" from road resurfacing have to be dealt with "special" because the macadam removed is considered contaminated with lead.
Joe K
gdmn852
Well-known member
Hello, I remember back in the 1970,s they were phaseout of leaded fuel and the worry about “valve recession “ and harden valve, and seats were installed most people rebuilding antique engines . Most just added Marvel Mistery oil for top lube of valve train . I found running ethanol fuel in Hudson and 49 Buick, it caused the rubber fuel lines , vitron tip in carburetor, and diaphragm in fuel pump to deteriorate.Sort of over cleaned the fuel system. In Pennsylvania we have the option of non ethanol but at $.50 to .75 over going price of ethanol.Boat owners won’t use ethanol.
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Gene F
Well-known member
My mind goes to my uncle who had a Model A Ford he drove during WWII. With rationing, gasoline became scarce and expensive. So he rigged up a valve and tank and would start on gasoline, then switch the motor over to Kerosene when it was warm.
"It would knock a bit on Kero" he said. (No oxygenation additive.)
Joe K[/QUOTE]
My Grandad used to run on K1 too. He said you could not start on it though. He said you had to carry a gallon of gasoline with you. Whatever he meant by that....
"It would knock a bit on Kero" he said. (No oxygenation additive.)
Joe K[/QUOTE]
My Grandad used to run on K1 too. He said you could not start on it though. He said you had to carry a gallon of gasoline with you. Whatever he meant by that....
Herb Concord Ca
Well-known member
I use MMO in my fuel at every fill up. 4 oz per 10 gals. I think it may help lube valves and valve guides, help prevent the "phase separation" of gas with ethanol and help prevent vapor-lock. Others call it "snake oil", you do what works for you.
henry's 31
Well-known member
Hi:
I agree with Herb 100%.
I also add MMO and seems to work well.
I agree with Herb 100%.
I also add MMO and seems to work well.
700rpm
Well-known member
My dad did the same thing.
rotorwrench
Well-known member
Most all products that formerly had lead in their make up have been gone for many years now with few exceptions. Tetra Ethyl Lead is near impossible to source with aircraft fuel being one exception to the rule. 100LL and other aircraft gasoline ratings are not legal to run in street car applications and Howell racing fuel is for racing only. That's not to say that it isn't done. Some folks take the risk but it would be expensive to get caught doing it. Here in Texas we actually have a fuel police that stop farmers & ranchers to check and see if they are running red off road diesel fuel in there road vehicles.
Joe K
Well-known member
Here in Cow Hampshire your "annual inspection" has this as a "look for."
Which is why everyone with a VW Diesel engine (clear fuel line) "wraps" the fuel line in electricians tape.
Not to say that a sample couldn't be taken.
I played the game for a while back in my VW Rabbit days. Then I grew tired of spilling fuel, wife complaining about "you stink like diesel", and spots on the floor leading away from my home heating oil tank.
It was simply easier to buy at the pump and pay the tax.
Joe K
Sunny the Model A
Senior Member
Don't you worry about running an A Model on ethanol, it will run on virtually anything and I've tested that. Since an A engine has a 4.3:1 compression ratio that means minimum octane it can run on is 43 octane give or take. the A will run on any fuel that can make a flammable vapor. if you want to, chuck a bit of marvel in the tank, 1oz per gallon or some filtered used motor oil, 3 oz per tank. Your A will love it
Fullraceflathead
Well-known member
When the Model A was new there was no lead in the fuel. So because of the light spring pressure and very mild cam timing adding lead is not necessary.
Banditorama
Senior Member
It'll burn that ethanol fuel just fine. The problem is, unless you're daily driving it, it sits and attracts water. It sits and causes build up in the carburetor and fuel lines
When I first got mine it had sat with that junk in the tank and it completely seized up the fuel gauge plus deteriorated the float on the end of the gauge arm. I don't run ethanol in mine or any of my other gas engines.