Front Motor Mount alignment

[GregLast]

Hello,

I just replaced the front yoke and replaced some of the old beehive springs with a more original setup from Mike AFordable. the problem I'm having is that now the front of the engine is sitting too high, however, I feel like I have all the springs pretty compressed. The crank handle is not aligned. I followed what I could in the Les Andrews book, but something is still off.

Any suggestions as to where I need to look next?

 

[bobbader]

Hmmmmmm .......... looks like it’s still way off and all 3 springs are definitely compressed almost all the way. Has the front crossmember been replaced at some time? Look for bolts and nuts at mounting points to the frame rails. Years ago there was a foreign made repro front crossmember that looked good but almost all dimensions and curves were wrong. From the picture, it looks like the bottom flat spring in the hardware kit is not sitting flat in the crossmember. But, it also looks like there is no way the bottom of the crossmember is deep enough to correct your problem.

First check to see if the crossmember is bolted in rather than riveted. If it is riveted, look underneath carefully to see if someone might have welded in a plate to repair a crossmember that was cracked and “busted up”. If neither of these situations seems evident, take everything apart and leave the 2 upper coil springs out of the mix. Install the bronze bushing, lower coil spring, and castle nut, tighten as if everything else was normal and see if you can bring the mount down low enough for the pulley to line up. If you can do that, then see how tall an upper spring would fit back in without being totally compressed. I’m guessing there won’t be much room for anything but a very short spring. (PLEASE ALSO NOTE: The castle nut you have in the picture is not as tall as the standard Model A nut commonly used. If the correct one was used the springs would be compressed “to the max”.)

Last question .......... Is the motor mount yoke a new reproduction? In the past, there were also some of them that were off in dimension.

Good luck. Bob Bader

 

[GregLast]

I’ll take it all apart again tomorrow and see what I can come up with. It is a new yoke. Had to drill a hole in it for the cotter pin because the whole going through the yoke stud was crooked. It may not be the highest quality.

 

[bobbader]

Aha ............... when you take things apart, carefully inspect that yoke. If there is a weld mark in the main yoke that appears to hold the top of the stud to the yoke, you don’t want to use that yoke. The studs and the welds that hold them in place are of inferior quality and the studs have a tendency to break loose from the yoke.

 

[GregLast]

Alright. I got a lot of it out and put the old yoke back in temporarily but with the new springs. Here's what I know and what I've found.

- Front crossmember has been replaced at some point. It's bolted in. I'm not terribly worried about this but I do noted to address some things I found.

- I assume the front crossmember has been repaired at some point due to the weld spots in the bottom the crossmember.

- The old setup my grandfather had in there was the beehive style springs without the auxiliary spring.

- The welded spots are in just the right places to keep the new auxiliary spring from sitting flat, probably a good 3/8" on one side.

- The hole in the crossmember has been enlarged to 3/4" for the bushing, but I am curious if it's too far back. If I lower the engine completely the yoke stud on the old yoke rubs against the front edge of the hole, making it difficult to accept the bushing.

Here's what I am planning on doing. Tell me if this is sane.

- I'm going to order a new yoke. The one from Mike's is a threaded in and welded stud and it looks like it's not shooting straight down anyways. I was already worried about the quality of this part.

-I'm going to order a set of springs from Bert's. Going through the old threads, it seems most people have done this and had the results they were looking for.

- I'm going to grind/file the weld off the bottom of the crossmember and see if I can create a smooth spot for the spring to lay.

I don't think I'm going to worry about the crossmember hole until I get a new yoke in here, I want to see if a new one is a little more straight, it might not be a problem...until it is.

Pictures attached, any advice you can spare me is helpful and appreciated!

 

[GregLast]

I don't know if I did a great job of taking the picture, the last picture is of the yoke laying flat on the table (flat where it bolts to the engine) and the yoke stud is pointing up at an angle. Doesn't seem like that should be normal, unless it is.

 

[Synchro909]

Beehive springs will have the motor sitting too high every time.

 

[bobbader]

Replacing the yoke you have is a good move. There’s no guarantee that the weld has penetrated the top of that stud and the stud can come loose at any time.

All your planned actions sound good.

One thing still concerns me. It may be an optical illusion from the picture, but, with everything removed, if you let the engine come down far enough for the crank nut to line up with the pulley, it looks like the bottom of the pulley might be very close to hitting the top surface of the crossmember.

Is your original front yoke good enough to use for a trial fit? That is, can you put the original yoke back on ............. without the coil springs or the flat spring. Then, let the engine come down until the flange on the yoke above the stud bottoms on top of the crossmember. If you do this and the crank nut and bearing line up ........... OR, if the crank nut actually lands LOWER than the crank bearing ......... then you are good to go with a better yoke and hardware kit from Bert’s.

When you drop the engine all the way down so the yoke flange lays on top of the crossmember, if the crank nut is STILL TOO HIGH to line up with the crank bearing, then your crossmember is problematic and should be replaced with a known good original.

 

[GregLast]

Thanks for the help here Bob. I have it assembled right now with the old yoke and the new springs and auxiliary spring, it's really close to being in line just the way it sits right now. I will take a look at again in the daylight to be sure, but I believe this will sit a little low if the springs are taken out.Those beehive springs weren't doing much anymore, but they were under there and it was lined up before.

I have always worried about clearances in this area, but everything seems to be fine. I can see some clearance between the pulley and the yoke flange, so I have less concern about it.

 

[duke36]

Before doing anything, you may want to check the engine angle on a flat garage /surface. One can use a cell phone app or angle gauge to verify the 3 degree angle at the oil pan to engine flange..

 

[GregLast]

Before doing anything, you may want to check the engine angle on a flat garage /surface. One can use a cell phone app or angle gauge to verify the 3 degree angle at the oil pan to engine flange..

It sits at 4 degrees right now. If I can get the front mount to cooperate and move a little lower, it will be 3 degrees.

 

[Conaway2]

You might also check the straightness of the frame at the rear motor mounts. Many Model A frames have sagged on both sides at the rear motor mounts. The sagging can be straightened, but could also account for motor alignment issues.

Good luck !
Jim

 

[bobbader]

Greg,

Sounds like you’re on the right track having tested with the original yoke.


Good luck,

Bob