Front Leaf Spring

Oldbluoval said:
So what is the deal with Travis at Aspring?
Website doesn’t work.
Click to expand...

Travis closed up shop several years ago. He was having issues getting the materials to make the springs and finally he just gave up and retired. No idea where the springs were coming from or what was the issue was in getting the parts made.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
I think for many folks, the Eaton Detroit springs will be perfectly fine. The issue is their 8 leaf front spring leaves are so much thicker that they are the same height as what Ford's 10 leaf spring was originally. For a non-authentic driver-level vehicle, that probably is no big deal but for someone who wants it to at least be aesthetically correct, then the 8 leaf definitely would not pass.

I still will re-arch but I am out of good #3 and #4 spring leaf cores to use, so I need to replace with new if possible.
Click to expand...
When I disassembled the front spring of my ‘30 a few months ago I found three broken leaves. I went on a scavenger hunt and had to acquire two more used spring sets to get the three leaves I needed. I cleaned them up, ground the tips and grooves, cold-arched them and repainted with graphite paint. At least span and overall arch are now proper, we’ll see how long it lasts. Likely longer than I will. If not, I’ll get an Eaton Detroit spring and say to hell with it.

Rear spring was intact, so all I did was grind and repaint.
 
Is a higher resolution scan of the drawings attached available?
I'm trying to create radius templates for re-arching the front spring but those drawings are very hard to read! Thank You, George
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0370.jpg
    IMG_0370.jpg
    52.2 KB · Views: 24
  • IMG_0372.jpg
    IMG_0372.jpg
    70.7 KB · Views: 21
I re-arched mine worked out great. Cleaned the leaves up, marked each with chalk every 2.5", 2" for the small ones, made a jig for the press. made a template out of cardboard using the ford drawing as reference, with arched lines. pressed each leaf to match template. Worked out great. If your going to purchase a new spring set anyway, nothing to loose giving it a try. if you have a press.
 
GRutter said:
Is a higher resolution scan of the drawings attached available?
I'm trying to create radius templates for re-arching the front spring but those drawings are very hard to read! Thank You, George
Click to expand...

Yes Sir. Contact Benson Ford Research Center and give them the Ford part number.



jak said:
Travis closed up shop several years ago. He was having issues getting the materials to make the springs and finally he just gave up and retired. No idea where the springs were coming from or what was the issue was in getting the parts made.
Click to expand...

To elaborate on what Jeff was saying, I recently encountered a similar situation where I needed to have a rear helper Spring manufactured for a 1903 Ford Model-A we are working on, and the issue is like Jeff was saying, ...no one manufactures the spring steel blanks any longer in the dimensions needed. Our option for this '03 is to slowly de-arch the Spring blank until we can get it totally flat, then use a WaterJet to reduce the Spring Blank width from 1.625" to 1.500" wide (-a cut will need to be made on each side of the leaf to allow the Spring's tie-bolt hole to be centered), then use a Surface Grinder to reduce the narrowed Spring blank to the correct thickness, and then radius and taper each end like the original piece was. Once all of this is done, we can begin re-arching each leaf (-4 leaves in this application) to the correct shape. Anyone care to guess what this is going to cost??

So unless a handfull of investors choose to collaborate to have a run of properly dimensioned spring material manufactured, it would appear the Detroit Spring's offerings are going to be our only option.
 
Hi BRENT in 10-uh-C,


I was very happy to find your pictures of a drawing for the front spring (posted 07-01-2022, 08:12 PM). I assume that this is for all Model A's (no AA).
Unfortunately the picture is tough to read due and therefor lots of guessing.
I would like to ask, whether you have the chance to post or send a sharp picture where all details could be read clearly. Let me know if I could help you in any way.
And in addition: Do you happen to have a similar Ford Production drawing for the rear spring (for the various Model A's)?
Looking forward to your reply.
Have a great day.
Michael


PS: To restore/re-bend my 1929 Ford Model A Phaeton front spring I identified the bending radius for every leave assuming that the mistake of portions of an inch for a total radius between 19" and 48" is not too important.
 
lumitz said:
Hi BRENT in 10-uh-C,


I was very happy to find your pictures of a drawing for the front spring (posted 07-01-2022, 08:12 PM). I assume that this is for all Model A's (no AA).
Unfortunately the picture is tough to read due and therefor lots of guessing.
I would like to ask, whether you have the chance to post or send a sharp picture where all details could be read clearly. Let me know if I could help you in any way.
And in addition: Do you happen to have a similar Ford Production drawing for the rear spring (for the various Model A's)?
Looking forward to your reply.
Have a great day.
Michael


PS: To restore/re-bend my 1929 Ford Model A Phaeton front spring I identified the bending radius for every leave assuming that the mistake of portions of an inch for a total radius between 19" and 48" is not too important.
Click to expand...

Michael, welcome to Fordbarn. You should either visit Benson Research Center website, -or contact them and give them the part number for the specific Assembly Drawing you need, and they will supply that.
 
I've also re-arched front springs, sometimes I use a reverse eye to drop the front down a little, gives it a nice look. I've been lucky enough to find new springs over the years at swap meets and inside cars.
Most people think it's heavy junk. Also check the spring perches.
 
I just bought a new rear spring from Detroit Eaton Spring. It "looks" fine, still have a lot to do before I put the car on the road. They told me emphatically NOT to lubricate it, that hydrocarbon lubricants will degrade SAE 5160 steel!! I have searched for references to that phenomenon but can't find anything so I really wonder about that advice. The spring was expensive and I rather wish I had restored the old spring (grind out the grooves and taper the underside of the leaves).
 
gilitos said:
I just bought a new rear spring from Detroit Eaton Spring. It "looks" fine, still have a lot to do before I put the car on the road. They told me emphatically NOT to lubricate it, that hydrocarbon lubricants will degrade SAE 5160 steel!! I have searched for references to that phenomenon but can't find anything so I really wonder about that advice. The spring was expensive and I rather wish I had restored the old spring (grind out the grooves and taper the underside of the leaves).
Click to expand...

Believe it or not. They are right.

You can find information on this on line.

Learned this in school many years ago.
 
WHN said:
Believe it or not. They are right.

You can find information on this on line.

Learned this in school many years ago.
Click to expand...

I just looked online and read about quenching it in oil, but not degradation.

So if he are in the mood for discussing this, what are we thinking that a 5160 Steel Spring's useful life actually is without, -or with the lubricating oil?
 
Another option, depending on where you live is to take your complete spring assembly to a spring shop where they do spring re-arching. There are at least 2 of such shops in the Dallas area, maybe others I'm not aware of. These kinds of shops are experienced in doing this kind of work effectively and you don't have to settle for cheap Chinesium garbage springs as Brent mentioned. Google search your local area for shops that do re-arching of truck springs and they might be able to help you.
 
gilitos said:
I just bought a new rear spring from Detroit Eaton Spring. It "looks" fine, still have a lot to do before I put the car on the road. They told me emphatically NOT to lubricate it, that hydrocarbon lubricants will degrade SAE 5160 steel!
Click to expand...

I called Eaton Spring a couple of months ago and asked for their technical guy, and they put him on the phone. It was an older gentleman, and I asked him specifically about this piece of advice. He said that he remembered that that was the recommendation but had no idea why it was true. I asked if anyone else at the company would know and he said no. I've done a lot of internet research looking at the source of this claim and can't find a single piece of even partial supporting evidence.

The closest thing I could find to evidence is the idea that oiling/greasing the springs will attract road dust, which will abrade the springs. But again, no evidence that SAE 5160 steel has any vulnerability specifically to petroleum products.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
I just looked online and read about quenching it in oil, but not degradation.

So if he are in the mood for discussing this, what are we thinking that a 5160 Steel Spring's useful life actually is without, -or with the lubricating oil?
Click to expand...

It is more complicated than I feel necessary here.

In the early 50’s the auto industry stopped using grease because of the effect it was having on the steel being used.

There is more than enough information out there to confirm that.

We are not talking about quenching.

Spring life, I would not see as a problem on a 100 year old car.

However, 5160 steel can be degraded with certain chemicals. That’s a fact.
 
dear all senior members,


thank you very much for your helpful thoughts.


Meanwhile I have disassembled front and rear springs, wire-brushed individual leaves, ground ridges off and smoothen the burrs. The single leaves I have bent to the provided radius/geometry to the best I had information of. With every leave I came close to the ideal (up to - 10mm (- 3/8"). Every leave has been greased with water resistant grease and re-assembled with new center screws. I had two sets of spring covers which I have installed too.


The test drive was unbelievable smooth, felt like air suspension. No doubt this solution will also survive me.


The discussion with chemical which could harm specific steel to me is not relevant if spring steel (higher quality steel) even not painted is covered in grease. Grease does not at all has any critical ingredients for iron/steel. There are chemicals (hydrogen, acids, ...) which could support to crack steel under load.


So hope you can enjoy the next ride as much as I will.


Thanks again


Michael
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top