Front cross member

A

aermotor

Well-known member
I want to remove the front cross member to sand blast and treat. Not frame off, engine in car, fenders off and radiator off. I have access to all the bolts and was thinking to support front of engine with a cherry picker by picking up a few timing gear cover bolts to remove the wishbone. What am I looking at with the frame spreading and issues with the spring to axel clamp bolts?

John
 
aermotor said:
I want to remove the front cross member to sand blast and treat. Not frame off, engine in car, fenders off and radiator off. I have access to all the bolts and was thinking to support front of engine with a cherry picker by picking up a few timing gear cover bolts to remove the wishbone. What am I looking at with the frame spreading and issues with the spring to axel clamp bolts?

John
Click to expand...

The front crossmember is supposed to be riveted in, NOT bolted in. There is a lot of strength ( I.e.: excessive flex) loss when using bolts.
 
This one is bolted in with 2 bolts each on the upper and lower flanges and 2 bolts on the vertical web for a total of 6 bolts on each end.

John
 
I have gone through the threads concerning front cross member riveting and the pros/cons of bolts. I have decided to replaces one bolt at a time with a rivet but still need my original questions concerning dissasembly of the cross member as I want to inspect and sand blast the cross member. In the event that I feel the cross member is rusted beyond safe use where would I find another that is not hot rod type?

John
 
They show up on Epay all the time, you just have to be sure
they are for the years you need. Seems like most of the sellers don't know
the difference between 28-29 and 30-31.

Bob
 
First choice would be to obtain another front cross member and restore it and have it ready to place in the car. Next choice, I'd take the engine out to give room and have easy access to cross member.

Either way I would jack up the front and place stands under the frame. I would also raise up the engine a little and crib it so it does not move until the job is done.

The absolutely best way to replace/repair the front cross member, IMHO, is to remove every thing in the way, engine, radiator, fenders, webbing any thing within 2 feet on the area to weld or rivet.
 
Another problem. I feel confident that I will be able to rerivet the front cross member by cribbing the engine to the frame and then the frame to the floor to support the front of the engine. The frame has 3 slightly counter sunk holes, however only the 2 front ones are used for the obvious reason that the back hole is right above the corner of the cross member. The cross member has 3 holes, the front 1 is used, the 2 nd hole is misdrilled by 1/2 a rivet hole and the
3rd is a unmolested 1/4" hole. The cross member is a little less than 4" at the frame flange edge and the front to back frame hole spacing is 3" center to center. Also the wishbone is not vertically in line with the 2 spring centers - it leans aft by about 1/2" - 3/4". I guess this is the wrong cross member. Suggestions for a fix?

John
 
There should be seven rivet holes on each side. How about some pictures
and what year are you working on?

Bob
 
I can't post a picture right now. It is a 28 Tudor December. There is no miss drilled holes in the frame. 2 end holes into the frame web, 1 in the front tab of the cross member to the frame flange, 1 in the rear flange of the crossmember into the frame flange, and 3 slight countersunk across the top flange. The top of the cross member is to narrow to pick up all 3 frame holes. The miss drill and missing fastener is in the cross member not the frame. The wishbone is back about 1/2" from a vertical of the spring bases.
 
Not getting to much help here except valuable advice from BobC and MikeV. Bob what is the difference between 28-29 and 30-31? and Mike, I will take your advice when I find another cross member. 333 views and only 2 meaningfull answers. I will not take up anymore time and not post anymore except to say thanks to those who have helped. Thanks Bob and Mike.

John
 
Last edited:
Have you done a search for "crossmember 1928 vs. 1930"?
I'm not sure which words would be the best to search, but I have posted pictures of the two styles. I can repost, if I can find my pictures again.

The information is also in both the "SERVICE BULLETINS" and "Judging Standards".
 
Tom, Thanks for the pictures, The radiator deck height doesn't matter to me as I have the "short" radiator. I believe that there is 3 different cross members, 2 of which have the top rivet hole total spacing of 3 1/8" total for the 3 and one with a total rivet hole spacing of approx. 2 3/4" and one of the three having a tall aft flange to mount the engine solid. I am hopeing that the Service Bulletin book will tell the difference when it gets here. Bob C do you think this obsrvation is correct? Mike V - I have taken your advice and am ready to install when I find the correct cross member. I don't put stuff back with miss drilled and missing fasteners, even though I am making this a driver I am going to do what I do right - not like some of the "restorations" I have seen. For me the rivet installation is an afernoon "walk in the park". New Member doesn't mean Stoopid just inexperienced in Model A's Thanks guys.

John
 
John, one drawback with not removing items from the chassis before replacing the front cross member, is not knowing whether the chassis is square or not. It might take some extra time, bit I'd lift the body and remove the engine to remove the heavy weighted items and allow access to getting good measurements of the chassis, including diagonals to ensure it's square.
 
I'm not sure of the hole spacing but the 1932 parts book shows
the same front cross member for 28-31 from this I would assume
that the later cross member should fit the earlier cars.

Bob
 
Thanks Bob and Dave. I have the engine out and I installed a temp. cross piece next to the old one to maintain what ever squareness I have now. I do believe the 28-31 crossmemders are probably the same except for the radiator deck height, since I have the "short" radiator either should work with mount pad thickness change

John
 
Steve Plucker did a lot of research and wrote an article on Model A frame differences.
Maybe someone has a link to it.
 
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