French flathead v8 block

R

Rtvet

Junior Member
Hi from England
I have recently purchased a 1938 ford v8 built in the Uk. It has a later French flathead 8BA (?) engine with what seems to be non matching heads. I have attached some photos of the heads and block and it is clear that the two don't really match
We have just driven 1000 miles on a round trip to the Le Mans Classic event in France and the head gaskets have survived with a lot of added sealant.
We are now stripping the engine as this car has been entered for the 2016 Paris Peking Rally . So we need better head /block alignment . Can anyone suggest the right heads to match the water ways on the block , and is there any advice on suppliers. ( EU or USA ) who could possibly supply heads to match the blocks .
We also have to change the diff as the top speed is a only 45 with v high engine revs. Are new gear and pinions available and does anyone have any advice on this area. We believe we need a ford toploader gearbox as well

Any thoughts and help appreciated

Richard
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    64.9 KB · Views: 195
The water holes do not necessarily match. My 47 Canadian C59A has the correct heads, but the trapezoid holes don't match up.
 
Many thanks, I will contact them and see what can be done. The main issue has been the mismatch of head gaskets which led to the very early demise of a new 8ba head gasket set after 100 miles
Thanks
Richard
 
I have some french heads I could sell. I am near Birmingham.

I don't understand the gasket mismatch. The french gaskets are the same as 8BA, aren't they?

Mart.
 
You may want to know the rear gear ratio now. Look at the bottom of the center banjo housing, the ratio may be stamped there. There are several threads here that explain other ways to determine and confirm the rear gear ratio, you can do a search for them. I like the 3:78 ratio for a single speed and the 4:11 for a two speed.
 
Those French engines have the 59A stype half bell rear casting but have th 8BA style coolant passages in the deck. I wished that they weren't all relieved. It makes it where a guy is better off with aftermarket aluminum heads with crowfoot chambers to get the compression ratio back up. Most of the cars built at Dagenham would have been the 60 HP types so the 239 CID and 255 CID stuff is likely more rare in that part of the world with exception of wartime 239 stocks. The heads can be interchanged on pretty much all of the flatheads except the 60 HP but a bit of machine work is required to fit the 59A or earlier type heads to the 8BA style decks.
 
Banjo gear ratio-39-11 is 3:54.34-9=3:78.37-9=4:11.39-9=4:33.Think I found these on the flathead techno site or Van Pelts.
 
The vast majority of Dagenham built flatheads are 21 stud very similar to the 37- early '38 engine, the 60up type is very rare over here. Quite a bit of French flathead stuff here, Jim's got a bunch of it.
Different ratio crown and pinions are available, but you really need to work out what you already have. So you know what you need. It should be considerably faster than 45! It should reach 70 fairly easy, be revving a bit, but it should do it. I had 4.11:1 in a roadster, that was fine at north of 70 on repeated occasions. Not a completely stock flathead, but stock bottom end and most oily bits. Be good to know how many revs is lots, lots is an opinion so hard to know. Get a rev counter (tachometer) on it and see where your at.
You should be fine with 8BA head gaskets.
Jim has done an engine and a bunch of other stuff on a 1940 I think Ford for the Peking Paris thing
Good luck on your quest,
Martin..
 
For sure the 21 studs are the other exception since the heads won't fit anything but the old 21 stud 221 blocks. The 39 on 24 stud heads can be interchanged with some valve recess work on the the prewar type heads plus blocking some deck passages.

Luckily the Simca SUMB engines will fit any of the 8BA family that are still relatively common on this side of the pond but it would likely be easier to find the French heads over there. The aftermarket aluminum heads get more expensive every year but I don't know what is allowed for the event the car is to be run in if there are any exceptions.

I agree with Martin about finding other problems. That engine should run a fair bit better than described. There seems to be a problem in the middle of the deck and head. I could be wrong but it looks like some flow dividers were installed in the center siamese exhaust port with a screw sticking out of the head bolt hole there. It appears that some work was done on bore of the coresponding head bolt there to make it fit. What's up with that? It needs all 24 bolts to seal things up correctly. Maybe it's just the photo but it doesn't look quite right to me.
Kerby..
 
Last edited:
I can't see anything wrong at all with the parts in the photo. Am I missing something?

The car may have been built as a V8-60 car and may have a 4.44 axle ratio.

Note the single head stud and the chamfer in the head on that hole only. This is so a small o-ring can be fitted to help prevent leakage past the stud.

Mart.
 
I've never played with a SUMB engine so I'm not used to studs being there or anywhere on an 8BA type deck. 8BA engines used no studs or o-rings originally. The photo must have been dead on with the length of that stud to cause the optic effect that seems to indicate either a very short stud, a broken stud, or something of that nature. The photo image resolution is not good enough for me to tell with accuracy.
 
Last edited:
It's taken from a point of view dead inline with the stud. It's in the upper central hole. Probably put there for hanging the gasket and head on to make it easier in field workshops.

I's pretty handy, I like it.

Mart.
 
Yeah Mart is correct about the stud and "O" ring. The stud goes through the deck and water jacket and screws into the block. The " o" ring needs to be fitted to stop water leaks around the head casket and up the stud.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top