Frame Number
- Thread starter Lorenzo
- Start date
160B
Well-known member
*A2882049*
45B 30-31 Standard Coupe
Engine assembly date February 17 1930
http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/studies/Model A Daily Motor Production Charts.pdf
45B 30-31 Standard Coupe
Engine assembly date February 17 1930
http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/studies/Model A Daily Motor Production Charts.pdf
Thanks, 160B. I am starting to like this place. Buncha ... wise guys.Tom Wesenberg, whom I trust implicitly in such matters, has said: "The engine was stamped when completed, then the same number was stamped on the frame when the engine was installed, so
it could be a few days or months later." Months sounds right. My coupe is a Deluxe, cowl lights, dome light, etc. For this reason and that, I think it was put together in August, 1930.
it could be a few days or months later." Months sounds right. My coupe is a Deluxe, cowl lights, dome light, etc. For this reason and that, I think it was put together in August, 1930.
Steve Plucker
BANNED
Why don't you try keying some other things out on the car. If it is truely an unmolested car you might be able to get a better window of assembly on it.
Look at the frame for key items such as the emergency brake cross shaft, ect.
What is the assembly plant code and numbers?
Is the instrument panel 28-29-early 30 or mid 30-31?
Pluck
Look at the frame for key items such as the emergency brake cross shaft, ect.
What is the assembly plant code and numbers?
Is the instrument panel 28-29-early 30 or mid 30-31?
Pluck
cradlescyth
Senior Member
Justa thank you to 160-B
Info was great and format good !!
Info was great and format good !!
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
I agree with Steve Plucker. If you have the "SERVICE BULLETINS" look in there for details to get a close date of production. Sales were slowing down after the great depression of 1929, but for an engine built on February 17, 1930 to set around until August is quite a wait. My slant windshield 1931 Town Sedan with flat firewall was built about April, 1931, but has a November, 1930 engine and matching frame date.
Indiana A. Lover
Senior Member
Tom On the subject of numbers on the frame, where were they stamped? I have been unable to locate my frame numbers. Thank you Don in In
Bob Bidonde
Well-known member
I manage the records for the Victoria Association and we have over 500 surviving 190As in the data base. In a standard situation, the car assembly date is calculated in the data base as follows:
Engine Assembly Date + plus 60 days = Probable Car Assembly Date.
The above methodology allows for situations for example, where bodies built by suppliers (Murray, Briggs, etc.) may have sat at a Ford Branch for quite awhile before it went to the car assembly line. The assumption is that there was always pressure for engines to keep the branch lines well supplied, so the engine assembly date is the pinpoint of reality.
The 60 days leeway between the engine assembly date and the car assembly date comes from The Model A Ford Judging Standards & Restoration Guidelines, and it has a reasonable rationale.
So each car has three event dates of significance in this order:
Body Assembly Date; Engine Assembly Date; Car Assembly Date @ A Ford Branch.
The dilemma is that there are no records that have been uncovered by Murray, Briggs, Ford or others that correlate body serial numbers to the calendar, or its eventual engine number, or to its car assembly date at the branch. For example, it is unknown when Murray built Body Number 190A29256. However it is known from Ford's foundry records that the original engine in 190A29256 was built on April 8, 1931. The original engine number, 4545497 was verified to be the same as the number stamped into the frame. Thus applying the 60 days leeway, I estimate that this car was most likely assembled at a Ford Branch in April or May 1931.
Contrary to the practice of Murray, Briggs and other body suppliers, Ford did not serialize its body production. So for example in the case of a 45B Coupe, the only way to date the body is by its features using Ford branch service letters, and Ford's service bulletins.
There is a caution regarding the use of the Ford branch letters. That is the branches did not necessarily incorporate changes at the same time, nor in the same way. For example, Ford branch letters regarding the interior passenger's side sun visor going out of production in slant windshield cars consistent in Chicago and in Indianapolis. Chicago announced that the passenger's visor was back into production shortly thereafter, but the corresponding letter from the Indianapolis Branch says that the dealers could install the visor, but gave no indication it went back into production. Thus slant windshield cars built in Chicago could have a difference from those built in Indianapolis.
Engine Assembly Date + plus 60 days = Probable Car Assembly Date.
The above methodology allows for situations for example, where bodies built by suppliers (Murray, Briggs, etc.) may have sat at a Ford Branch for quite awhile before it went to the car assembly line. The assumption is that there was always pressure for engines to keep the branch lines well supplied, so the engine assembly date is the pinpoint of reality.
The 60 days leeway between the engine assembly date and the car assembly date comes from The Model A Ford Judging Standards & Restoration Guidelines, and it has a reasonable rationale.
So each car has three event dates of significance in this order:
Body Assembly Date; Engine Assembly Date; Car Assembly Date @ A Ford Branch.
The dilemma is that there are no records that have been uncovered by Murray, Briggs, Ford or others that correlate body serial numbers to the calendar, or its eventual engine number, or to its car assembly date at the branch. For example, it is unknown when Murray built Body Number 190A29256. However it is known from Ford's foundry records that the original engine in 190A29256 was built on April 8, 1931. The original engine number, 4545497 was verified to be the same as the number stamped into the frame. Thus applying the 60 days leeway, I estimate that this car was most likely assembled at a Ford Branch in April or May 1931.
Contrary to the practice of Murray, Briggs and other body suppliers, Ford did not serialize its body production. So for example in the case of a 45B Coupe, the only way to date the body is by its features using Ford branch service letters, and Ford's service bulletins.
There is a caution regarding the use of the Ford branch letters. That is the branches did not necessarily incorporate changes at the same time, nor in the same way. For example, Ford branch letters regarding the interior passenger's side sun visor going out of production in slant windshield cars consistent in Chicago and in Indianapolis. Chicago announced that the passenger's visor was back into production shortly thereafter, but the corresponding letter from the Indianapolis Branch says that the dealers could install the visor, but gave no indication it went back into production. Thus slant windshield cars built in Chicago could have a difference from those built in Indianapolis.
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Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
Usually they are near the outer edge of the top frame rail near the cowl area. You'll need to lift the body and splash apron to see it. I lifted the body and splash apron a few inches on the left side of my 29 Tudor, but didn't find any number. Someday when I get time I will pull the body to restore the car and get a better look.
160B
Well-known member
RG&JS Page 1-1 and 1-2 revised 2011
ENGINE
….The assembly date for a vehicle may be as long as three
months after the date the engine was produced (four
months in 1931)………………………………
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
Here is an example of the engine number stamped into the frame of a 1928 Model A. I'm sure they stamped it near the outer edge since the vertical side would offer good support for the stamping process. Notice the number is right above the brake rod spring support bracket.
