Flathead

Spraygun

Spraygun

Junior Member
Hi, I have about 30 Ford, Merc flatheads to identify and free up. They are on dollies on the floor. What's the best way to go about this?
I've pulled the plugs and carbs on a few, then added a mixture of sovlents, The flywheel turning tool I have won't do much good and it appears that the front crankshaft bolt is way too small to put any force on.
Is there any more detailed way to identify them other than bolt count?
 
A lot of guys on here favor a 50/50 mixture of acetone and Dexron style automatic transmission fluid as a penetrant. Seems to work well and isn't expensive. You have to use a lot of patience when freeing up these old engines or you'll wind up breaking things. Good luck.
 
More than likely, some (many?) will have to be completely dismantled to free them up. Depends on how long they've been sitting and how much moisture they've seen. With heads, intake and oil pan still installed, there's a better chance of success. You have to take the heads off anyway to see if they are cracked in the valve area, so you may as well do that and then add solvent to cylinders. Valves can also be very well stuck. As Henry said use patience. A non-rotating engine can take a great deal of time to free up, even if partially dismantled. Good luck.
 
after soaking put a starter on them & hit it with 12 volts & keep just bumping the starter they will either come free or break the ring gear which is no big deal if they are that stuck as you will have to dissmantle them anyway.My Dad showed me this over 40 years ago & it has worked for many . I put over 40,000 miles on one I freed up.
Cheers
Tony
 
KiWinUS said:
after soaking put a starter on them & hit it with 12 volts & keep just bumping the starter they will either come free or break the ring gear which is no big deal if they are that stuck as you will have to dissmantle them anyway.My Dad showed me this over 40 years ago & it has worked for many . I put over 40,000 miles on one I freed up.
Cheers
Tony
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Tony, where have you been hiding...? Long time no hear. Will you be going to the Moonshine Festival this year? PM me if you get a chance. Thanks, Vic
 
Try this to id them. Most of the detail is in the early years since that is where my interests lie.

Identification of the early flatheads is best approached in terms of the block. There is an unbelievable amount of interchangeability for the accessories over the years. Count the number of head studs.
1) If there are 17 studs it is a V8 60 used in vehicles between 1937 and 1940. This engine was also used in the French built Simca in the sixties but I don’t know what occurred between these two periods. Look for casting numbers and stamped steel water jackets in the side of the block. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine.
2) If there are 21 studs the block was built 1932 to 1938. The transition to 24 studs was late in 1938. Check the water petcocks on the front of the block next to where the lower hose from the radiator enters either an inlet fitting (1936 and earlier) or the water pump (1937 and later). It the petcocks point straight down it is a 1932 block. If the block is not a 1932 next look for a vent from the crankcase area out through the front corner of the oil pan. If there is no vent the block is 1933-34. If there is a vent it is 1935 or later. As a matter of interest, the 1936 engines were the first to use insert bearings. Both insert and babbitt bearings were used throughout 1936. The insert bearing engines can be identified by LB cast at the top of the left front face of the block or by the letters LB stamped into the surface where the intake manifold attaches. Some engines were not stamped and in other cases people tried to inflate the price of their blocks by stamping LB into them when they were sold. Be careful. Now check for the location of the water pumps. If the water pumps mount on the block the engine is 1937 or later. All engines beginning in 1937 were inserts. Frequently you will encounter a 1937 block with factory block off plates held on by two bolts over the water pump passage at the front of the block as it was common for Ford dealers to install this engine as a replacement in the earlier cars. Of course there will be slight transition periods at model change over with the older blocks usually going into the commercial vehicles. There may be subtle differences between the 1933-34 and the 1935-36 engines but I am knowledgeable enough about these years to know what they are. The casting numbers on the flywheel housing will also help identify the exact year of the engine. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine.
3) If there are 24 studs the engine was produced between late 1938 and 1953 (1954 in Canada). If the distributor is mounted on the front of the block the engine is late 1938 through 1948 (1947 for trucks). If the distributor comes up at an angle and appears more like a modern distributor it is a 1949 (1948 for truck) through 1953 (1954 in Canada). The casting numbers on the flywheel housing will further identify the exact year of the engine. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine.
4) There are a lot of additional foreign and industrial applications of these engines but the preceding covers the domestic US automobile production.


Charlie Stephens
 
That is the most knowledgable reply I have ever seen! Good work,Charlie! Still got the 32 with the Iron Duke in it? James
 
Using Charlie's guide, I would sort so:

Assuming a typical assortment, lots will be 59's or '49-53's.
So...everything with 59 on bell is identified (99%, as a few were cast as 221 replacements) as a '46-48 type. Common, desirable as the universal replacement/hotrod engine for early Fords.
Anything with removable bell is '49-53...no real reason to distinguish by their outer accessories now.
Anything that has 24 studs and ISN'T one of the above should be stood on end and a head removed, then multiple pics posted here, as the '38-42-WWII types need serious examination to fully ID.
Then all 24's should have stroke measured...some later ones got 4" crank OEM, many of the earlier will also have picked up a 4" over the years, and this is a BIG $$ point.
Within the various age groups engines can be accessorized as needed for exact year/model heads and stuff.



21 studs...stand'em all on end...sort first by vent stack and water pump holes in front. place for pumps on block, '37-8. All with no pump holes and with vent get examined for cast or insert bearings...insert more valuable.
All with no vent, look for any '32's...others are various '33-4 permutations.
The pre-59 24 studs will need discussion and/or pics here to sort out type.
This sort will ID many completely, get a basic sort for detail inspection on the murkier years.
 
On the freeing-up phase, you are looking for a way to apply more torque. I saw a good trick on one of the model A boards...the guy reworked a starter by welding the Bendix in engaged position, tossing all the copper, and welded a coupling for a breaker bar to the shaft. On flatheads, one starter will fit all 221-239-255 engines except for those set up for the '51-53 automatic trans.
 
I'm not sure what can be accomplished by simply soaking and trying to make the engine turn over.

"John R" above sounds like he's spent some time busting engines loose.

Anyone who has worked with a bunch of stuck engines is going to tell you to go ahead and take the heads and intakes off. They gotta come off anyhow. Leave the pan on initially to catch the mess.

Use your favorite penetrating stuff on the most promising. (Some will be so bad that you won't want to fool with them.) Carefully work the valves free ... can't do that with the heads and intakes on. Until the valves are freed up, you are wasting your time.

If you decide to just soak and honk on them, keep us posted on how many you break completely free that way. MAYBE these engines were carefully stored, but if they are stuck, they weren't.
 
I put together the information in this thread to help people identify their flatheads. It is more complete than the information above, and includes pictures.
 
I have a technique for loosening crusty flatheads. I do it in a SAFE place. I have a barn in the country that has a graveled area. I get a large sheet of plywood. I drain what oil I can and remove the pan. I set the motor on the sheet of plywood with four of the cylinders vertical and horizontal. I put a 1/2 inch of brake fluid in each cylinder. I fill the remaining space almost almost to the top with paint thinner or starting fluid. I wait a few minutes after I do that in case any is outside of the cylinders. I light it with a plumbers torch. Paint thinner is better because it is so slow to burn. I will let it burn till it goes out, wait to cool down and repeat the process. The brake fluid will not burn all up. It will be what is left after the thinner is gone. The motor warms up, expands, brake fluid will move in the cylinder walls. I let this sit for a week and then do the other side. It never fails. The rust and corrosion is burned out of the cylinder walls. I keep every thing that is flammable away from the work area. A five gallon bucket of water is good too. Make sure the motor is setting solid. That is the reason I take the oil pan off. I couldn't get the motor solid.
 
"I light it with a plumbers torch."

Who cares whether or not it works ... I like it.
 
I like it too, sometimes I use a 3" hole saw to cut the tops of pistons off, then slot the piston with a sazall. Works, but your method is more fun. Back in the late 40's as a kid I tried to remove the jeads from a 35 ford, a guy told me to remove the nuts and drive it for a while. Drove it for 2 weeks, nothing happened.
 
Ol' Ron said:
I like it too, sometimes I use a 3" hole saw to cut the tops of pistons off, then slot the piston with a sazall. Works, but your method is more fun. Back in the late 40's as a kid I tried to remove the jeads from a 35 ford, a guy told me to remove the nuts and drive it for a while. Drove it for 2 weeks, nothing happened.
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Ron, if the head came off how would you het home, i thought that was funnyLOL
Brendan
 
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