flathead Ford 6 / no spark at coil

after replacing some ignition parts under the hood (condenser, plugs and coil) and still no spark at the dizzy/coil...today I stuck my head under the dash to double check the wiring and secure connections.. I came across the circuit breaker and saw that there is a couple of cracks in it which could be affecting the lack of complete circuit... Does anyone know where I can get this orig type part for my 1950 Ford coupe? I prefer not to get any of the over counter chinese crud from the local auto parts if possible... Being my coupe is now 12V, would this part be ok stock?
 
call chris at shorbox ford 1-405-259-9222 i can mail you an enlarged copy of a 50 wireing diagram... PM me with an address... don
 
waynerod said:
after replacing some ignition parts under the hood (condenser, plugs and coil) and still no spark at the dizzy/coil...today I stuck my head under the dash to double check the wiring and secure connections.. I came across the circuit breaker and saw that there is a couple of cracks in it which could be affecting the lack of complete circuit... Does anyone know where I can get this orig type part for my 1950 Ford coupe? I prefer not to get any of the over counter chinese crud from the local auto parts if possible... Being my coupe is now 12V, would this part be ok stock?
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You have said you have power to the ignition switch, and have tried a jumper from battery to coil. That circuit breaker isn't going to help you with starting your engine. You are eventually going to have to find out why the distributor isn't making a spark to the plugs.
 
If you are going to test wiring you need a muilty meter.anlog has hands not digital.
Put on ohms scale and touch the ends needle should deflect.
Dis connect battery.
now get on end of big cable pos
turn key on,
now remove wire from coil pos +
Now put meter end on that end and other on battery end.
should see movment.
Yes or no.
yes ok
now put a volt scale connect battery.
try the volt scale across battery 12 volts plus or minus. yes
now take the neg black lead to neg.
and put pos lead to end of coil wire the one you removed.
If no voltage work back thru key switch to battery you could have neutral inter lock.
 
I'm still with 40Cpe on this. Forget about the ignition switch and any wiring from battery to switch and from switch to coil. You can worry about this later. The original breaker on a shoebox Ford has no effect on the ignition system, only lights. All other posts on the breaker serve as junction terminals to various items. All power from the batt on original 6 volt systems route through the anmeter. That could be a source of your problem, but first worry about ignition.
You have to bypass all the dash wiring and just run a jumper direct from battery hot side to coil. Make one up with alligator clips so you can shut down engine when it fires. Just to clarify, you say this is now a 12 volt system and I would guess it's negative ground. If so, you need to run the jumper direct from the pos post on battery. If you do, how can it not have power at the coil? If you still get no spark then the problem is in the coil, condenser, or spark plug wires. Do you have the small wire from neg post of coil to the distributor hooked up if you have an internal condenser?
 
CT AV8 said:
I'm still with 40Cpe on this. Forget about the ignition switch and any wiring from battery to switch and from switch to coil. You can worry about this later. The original breaker on a shoebox Ford has no effect on the ignition system, only lights. All other posts on the breaker serve as junction terminals to various items. All power from the batt on original 6 volt systems route through the anmeter. That could be a source of your problem, but first worry about ignition.
You have to bypass all the dash wiring and just run a jumper direct from battery hot side to coil. Make one up with alligator clips so you can shut down engine when it fires. Just to clarify, you say this is now a 12 volt system and I would guess it's negative ground. If so, you need to run the jumper direct from the pos post on battery. If you do, how can it not have power at the coil? If you still get no spark then the problem is in the coil, condenser, or spark plug wires. Do you have the small wire from neg post of coil to the distributor hooked up if you have an internal condenser?
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I've tried about everything you guys mentioned, sometimes more than once.. in regards to the amp meter, it connects to the "BROKEN" circuit breaker, is why I'm trying to get this part replaced, the part that connects to the fuse is not secure since the large crack on the breaker prevents it. YES negative ground, 12 Volt conversion with alternator.. ya know, sometimes a phone call would help cut to the chase instead of typing then wait for a "possible" idea..The coil is brand new and was tested before I purchased, new condenser also as i mentioned a time or two the past 3 days. Oh yea the small wire from (-) of coil is connected to bottom of the dizzy, actually took the old off, cleaned the replacement and connections and installed.. also pulled the dizzy, cleaned that puppy up from crud, reinstalled components put back in flathead, lined up.. any other possible cause of spark drop..?
40cpe said possible points, dizzy... i replaced the points and set the gab yesterday, new spark plugs... only thing not NEW is plug wires and dizzy cap. you also said trace wire from coil back to ign switch the other day 40cpe, i did that yesterday and found the broken CB... I'm determined to get her running hopefully without dumping $$ on things I don't need...pulling out the tester also George/Maine... it was 100 here yesterday so garage...if it only affects the lights, why does the ign switch have wires connected to the broken circuit breaker...
 
If you can take the dist out you can do some testing.
Aligater clip to dist other to neg
pos wire to pos on coil.
dist wire to neg on coil.
leave center wire in coil and other end 3/8" from neg.
You have on bench battey, coil, and dist
you done, have to buy anything,
now turn dist and watch spark.
Better jet hold end of coil wire.
If you can,t do that sell it.
 
OR you could just box up the coil and distributor , send it to us , we can test on machine fix whatever is the problem and return to you ready to run.
I would want the distributor, cap and rotor and ignition coil in a box......
We charge one hour ( $48 ) for this plus shipping.
More than glad to help and give you some sanity???

Jim at Bubbas
 
George/Maine said:
If you can take the dist out you can do some testing.
Aligater clip to dist other to neg
pos wire to pos on coil.
dist wire to neg on coil.
leave center wire in coil and other end 3/8" from neg.
You have on bench battey, coil, and dist
you done, have to buy anything,
now turn dist and watch spark.
Better jet hold end of coil wire.
If you can,t do that sell it.
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are you online, question here
 
This may sound like a stupid question, but are the points actually opening and closing? Norm
 
We're trying to help you here. You wanted to hear the engine run. Stop worrying about the circuit breaker for now. I suggested you to put a simple jumper from battery hot to "+" on coil and check for voltage at points with them open. The distributor cap, plug wires and plugs won't affect this test. If you have voltage we can go to next step. If not, you have a open or grounded wire(s) from coil to points or the points are grounded.
 
40cpe said:
We're trying to help you here. You wanted to hear the engine run. Stop worrying about the circuit breaker for now. I suggested you to put a simple jumper from battery hot to "+" on coil and check for voltage at points with them open. The distributor cap, plug wires and plugs won't affect this test. If you have voltage we can go to next step. If not, you have a open or grounded wire(s) from coil to points or the points are grounded.
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i'm not worrying about the darn CB ok... hours past that... ran the test, i get spark from bat to coil but not at points. with the lead... + to +

yes dd93 1t does turn, just no spark
 
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Ok, so you're closing in on it. You've got the problem localized. 40cpe is a lot more knowledgeable than I am on the subject so I would listen to him closely.
You say everything but the spark plug wires and distributor cap are new, so now I'm wondering if it's the big wire from coil to distributor. Sometimes the ends do not seat correctly and make contact if the boot has slipped. Easy to see if you're getting spark from coil to distributor. If you are, you can eliminate the coil as a problem source. Do you have a new rotor as well? Also, as Norm asks, are the points opening and closing?

Not to beat a dead horse, but the reason you see wires from the ignition switch to the circuit breaker is because that is how the power is fed to the switch. Power goes from the battery to the batt terminal on the solenoid, through the anmeter, to the post on the circuit breaker, and then on to ignition, gauges, cigar lighter, and batt terminal on voltage regulator. All on the same post. That post is only being used as a junction to redistribute power. The wire coming out of the breaker goes to the light switch for headlights only. One wire from one of the 14 amp fuses mounted on teh breaker goes to dome lights and brake lights. The other goes to the light switch for taillights and parking lights. The reason I know this is I've been chasing electrical problems on our '50 Shoebox and have rewired much of it.
 
CT AV8 said:
Ok, so you're closing in on it. You've got the problem localized. 40cpe is a lot more knowledgeable than I am on the subject so I would listen to him closely.
You say everything but the spark plug wires and distributor cap are new, so now I'm wondering if it's the big wire from coil to distributor. Sometimes the ends do not seat correctly and make contact if the boot has slipped. Easy to see if you're getting spark from coil to distributor. If you are, you can eliminate the coil as a problem source. Do you have a new rotor as well? Also, as Norm asks, are the points opening and closing?

yea, ruling out things, and coming in for the kill.... or start...of flathead...The wire coming out of the breaker goes to the light switch for headlights only. One wire from one of the 14 amp fuses mounted on teh breaker goes to dome lights and brake lights. The other goes to the light switch for taillights and parking lights. The reason I know this is I've been chasing electrical problems on our '50 Shoebox and have rewired much of it.
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All parts new but the rotor/cap/plug wires. yep , got it on cbreaker..i'll replace it with new, but first priority is getting the engine started.. points open and close, just no spark to that point.
 
The only way you are going to fix is get a multy meter.
On ohms scale, there is the wire on dist, there are terminals on ends.
Some times over the years the wire brakes off, and is held on by the wire coating and looks good. If you hook one end to grd and other to end of dist wire and turn and see if the point make and brake.Just remove condenser wire.
 
If you have juice to the coil and the wire from the coil to the distributer is good , but no spark at the points. The condenser is bad unless the distributer wire is grounding out.
 
George/Maine said:
The only way you are going to fix is get a multy meter.
On ohms scale, there is the wire on dist, there are terminals on ends.
Some times over the years the wire brakes off, and is held on by the wire coating and looks good. If you hook one end to grd and other to end of dist wire and turn and see if the point make and brake.Just remove condenser wire.
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i read non starting engine thread and georg , did u mention the
ford owner take his dist. coil and bat and run a wire test on workbench. I'm also curious , what wires connect where to test? thx george
 
waynes50coupe said:
i read non starting engine thread and georg , did u mention the
ford owner take his dist. coil and bat and run a wire test on workbench. I'm also curious , what wires connect where to test? thx george
Click to expand...

First using the multmeter volt, amps, OHMS scale.
use the 1 k scale hand meter works best quicker.
You have 2 leads out of meter.red and black.
if you touch the end togethers and needle goes to full scale.
Now the wire in dist coil end put red and black to case of dist.
remove condenser.
now turn dist the needle goes full scale makes every time the points close.That should be ok.
You may want to tug ends of wire to see if they are broken.
Also if you have a coil that needs a resister NO SPARK. MOST
Know the coil you buy VW 1960s needs no resister.
I would get a 56 Ford coil and resister.or up to 1970.
 
George/Maine said:
First using the multmeter volt, amps, OHMS scale.
use the 1 k scale hand meter works best quicker.
You have 2 leads out of meter.red and black.
if you touch the end togethers and needle goes to full scale.
Now the wire in dist coil end put red and black to case of dist.
remove condenser.
now turn dist the needle goes full scale makes every time the points close.That should be ok.
You may want to tug ends of wire to see if they are broken.
Also if you have a coil that needs a resister NO SPARK. MOST
Know the coil you buy VW 1960s needs no resister.
I would get a 56 Ford coil and resister.or up to 1970.
Click to expand...

hey don't like just jumping in here, quest on your response george, yep have a red and black lead on meter.. you mention place red wire in coil, you mean in the hole for the plug wire from distrib? thanks again...
 
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