Flat head history question

4

4DForDor

Junior Member
I am the second owner of a stock 1940 Ford Deluxe ForDor. My grandfather bought it new in August of 1940.


Memories of conversations between my grandpa, my dad and uncles (all gone now), include several mentions by them of the Ford factory installing Mercury blocks (bigger bore - 239 cu. in.) in the Deluxe Fords later in that year due to a shortage of the 221 cu. in. blocks.


I'm pretty sure that I've got the original block, and they also talked about that engine undergoing a rebuild by an independent mechanic back in the early 50's, not the Ford garage.



I won't know what I've really got until I tear the engine down, probably sometime next year. I'm concentrating on the essentials like brakes, wiring, gas tank and exhaust system right now.


Have any of you heard of such a thing? My dad and grandpa weren't known to be liars, but they did tend to exaggerate every once in a while.


This has been gnawing at me for around 50 years now. Any counseling regarding this would be helpful.
 
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the ford factory did put 90 hp mercs in a lot of ford car/trucks/etc. I have a couple of them, two of the ones I have there is a tag under a head nut that has 99 stamped in it--99 being the 39 nomenclature of a mercury
 

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Thanks for the input. I'm feeling less crazy now, at least in regards to the Flathead question.
I haven't noticed a similar tag on my engine, but then it could have been discarded by the mechanic that did the rebuild back in the 50's.
I'll keep looking, listening and probing.
 
alanwoodieman said:
the ford factory did put 90 hp mercs in a lot of ford car/trucks/etc. I have a couple of them, two of the ones I have there is a tag under a head nut that has 99 stamped in it--99 being the 39 nomenclature of a mercury
Click to expand...

The first '9' is last digit of the first year of production-1939. The second '9' is the last digit of the displacement-239 cu. in. You see the same thing in 1945-the 59A. Again, first year of production and displacement combined to make the model number.
 
Welcome to the ‘Barn....congrats on your Fordor....you must be very proud to own a vehicle that has always been in your family!!!....Tons of experience on this site from people who are very generous in sharing it...Mark
 
Our resident 1940 Ford specialist (Kube) has confirmed that this practice was a reallity but to a limited degree in 1940. The 99A type car engines were 100% installed in the 1939 thru 1942 Mercury cars. The 99T engines for trucks were generally relieved to prevent detonation in the trucks pulling heavy loads. Ford passenger and commercial cars were limited on the use of the 95 HP engines but they were available. In 1941, they were even more limited for use in Ford cars. Police and emergency vehicles would have been eligible but I don't think they were as much of an option after beginning of 41. The 29A engine stayed in production during the war but most were used in a larger variation of the Universal Carrier that the British commonwealth countries used.

Ford stamped a lot of the early 239 blocks with "99" on the front right deck area but that practiced seemed to stop when they started painting them the characteristic dark blue color with the 221 85 HP still the dark green. Canadian 99A engines actually had 99 casting marks on the front right area of the block.
 
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4DForDoR and all;

A (1940) factory installed 99 engine would define the vehicle's Serial Number Prefix.

thus "99" and A,T or C with a 6 digit unit # of 101,701 to 257,101.

IE Kube's 1940 convertible and others but rare.

Please check the frame SN and let us know -picture if you can.

18A 5,210,xxx (221) or 99A also 54 506,501-up (60hp)

Thanks --good Ford fun !

Gene Tulsa
 
Welcome to the Barn, 4D. How blessed you are to have Grandpa's car...awesome.
Flatheads 4 ever. mike
 
Hey 4D - welcome to the Barn and it is totally cool that you have a car that has been in the family that long. I do not have ANY cars that came from my family - that would be a real treat. Come back to the Barn as often as you can - ask lots of questions and post some pictures of your car and the progress you're making.
 
G32 said:
4DForDoR and all;

A (1940) factory installed 99 engine would define the vehicle's Serial Number Prefix.

thus "99" and A,T or C with a 6 digit unit # of 101,701 to 257,101.

IE Kube's 1940 convertible and others but rare.

Please check the frame SN and let us know -picture if you can.

18A 5,210,xxx (221) or 99A also 54 506,501-up (60hp)

Thanks --good Ford fun !

Gene Tulsa
Click to expand...
Not necessarily...
In all of my research I could not find anything definitive as to how the Fords were to be serialized.
I've owned two that have extremely good documentation (proof) as to their provenance.
One has the "typical" Ford prefix of "18", the other had a prefix of "PC".
Of the two others that I know of and am certain had factory equipped (Merc engines), one has an "18" prefix and the other a "99".
Three out of the four aforementioned had "99" stamped" prominently in the dash panel (firewall).
 
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4DForDor said:
I am the second owner of a stock 1940 Ford Deluxe ForDor. My grandfather bought it new in August of 1940.


Memories of conversations between my grandpa, my dad and uncles (all gone now), include several mentions by them of the Ford factory installing Mercury blocks (bigger bore - 239 cu. in.) in the Deluxe Fords later in that year due to a shortage of the 221 cu. in. blocks.


I'm pretty sure that I've got the original block, and they also talked about that engine undergoing a rebuild by an independent mechanic back in the early 50's, not the Ford garage.



I won't know what I've really got until I tear the engine down, probably sometime next year. I'm concentrating on the essentials like brakes, wiring, gas tank and exhaust system right now.


Have any of you heard of such a thing? My dad and grandpa weren't known to be liars, but they did tend to exaggerate every once in a while.


This has been gnawing at me for around 50 years now. Any counseling regarding this would be helpful.
Click to expand...

Less than 1/10 of 1% of domestic 1940 Fords were built with a factory installed Mercury engine. ALL models of the "Deluxe" and the "Ford V8" experienced this factory install including the convertibles.

It is without question NOT true that Mercury engines were installed in any 1940 Ford due to the shortage of Ford blocks.

Was your grandfather a policeman, sheriff, fire chief or similar?

You may get a bit more insight to these rare 1940 Fords by searching this thread right here on the Barn: Rare '40 convertible restoration project
 
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alanwoodieman said:
the ford factory did put 90 hp mercs in a lot of ford car/trucks/etc. I have a couple of them, two of the ones I have there is a tag under a head nut that has 99 stamped in it--99 being the 39 nomenclature of a mercury
Click to expand...

Alan, I'd be most interested in seeing any documentation that proves your vehicles had the Merc engines (factory) installed.
Lord knows, I welcome any "leads" to further aid in my research.

That tag under the head nut was typically installed at time of Ford Reconditioning Service. The factory simply painted them like the Ford engines (green) and stamped the top deck "99".
Of course there may have been exceptions to this. That's precisely why I insist on very good / provable documentation prior to purchasing 1940 Fords claimed to be "factory Merc'd".
 
Kube said:
Not necessarily...
In all of my research I could not find anything definitive as to how the Fords were to be serialized.
I've owned two that have extremely good documentation (proof) as to their provenance.
One has the "typical" Ford prefix of "18", the other had a prefix of "PC".
Of the two others that I know of and am certain had factory equipped (Merc engines), one has an "18" prefix and the other a "99".
Three out of the four aforementioned had "99" stamped" prominently in the dash panel (firewall).
Click to expand...

Kube;

Re the 4 '99" engined 1940 Fords, did their 'unit numbers' fall within

the normal range for "99" engine equipped 1940 FMC vehicles?

Gene Tulsa
 
G32 said:
Kube;

Re the 4 '99" engined 1940 Fords, did their 'unit numbers' fall within

the normal range for "99" engine equipped 1940 FMC vehicles?

Gene Tulsa
Click to expand...

Two of them (the ones I've owned) did. The other convertible I can no longer recall. The other coupe (I have not owned) did.
 
G32 said:
4DForDoR and all;

Please check the frame SN and let us know -picture if you can.

18A 5,210,xxx (221) or 99A also 54 506,501-up (60hp)

Thanks --good Ford fun !

Gene Tulsa
Click to expand...

Where on the frame is the serial number located?

Thanks, Phil Swanson
 
The primary one may be the only one that has the prefix. The ones stamped toward the rear generally only have the linear number set with no prefix. It also depends on the assembly plant that dropped the motor unit into the chassis. There have been differences noted over the years but no documentation per se about the where & why of this practice.
 
I'm back.

Been a little busy on my 1940 Ford ForDor Deluxe since the last posts back in 2018. I completed refurbishing the rear end assembly with new seals, gaskets, brake cylinders shoes and lines. Also new paint. Left the differential gears and bearings alone.

Im presently working on removing gravel, dirt, rust and loose paint from the underside of the body and frame rails, from the extreme rear up to the firewall region. Then some rust conversion, encapsulation and top coating.

Transmission and engine rebuilds are next up on the "to do" list.

Thanks for all of the "schooling" that you all did on me regarding the original engine question. I am anxious to get the engine pulled out and disassembly started so that I can determine what I actually have as far as bore size and crank bearing features.

Since we last talked, I've learned that the transmission is out of a '47, and the engine block appears to be from a '41 or '42, based on some of the external block features. I've attached a couple of photos that I took of my fiber scope screen that show numbers found on the bell housing casting. I'm interested in hearing from anyone that may help me with learning what those markings mean.

Thanks,

4DForDor
 

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4DForDor said:
I'm back.

Been a little busy on my 1940 Ford ForDor Deluxe since the last posts back in 2018. I completed refurbishing the rear end assembly with new seals, gaskets, brake cylinders shoes and lines. Also new paint. Left the differential gears and bearings alone.

Im presently working on removing gravel, dirt, rust and loose paint from the underside of the body and frame rails, from the extreme rear up to the firewall region. Then some rust conversion, encapsulation and top coating.

Transmission and engine rebuilds are next up on the "to do" list.

Thanks for all of the "schooling" that you all did on me regarding the original engine question. I am anxious to get the engine pulled out and disassembly started so that I can determine what I actually have as far as bore size and crank bearing features.

Since we last talked, I've learned that the transmission is out of a '47, and the engine block appears to be from a '41 or '42, based on some of the external block features. I've attached a couple of photos that I took of my fiber scope screen that show numbers found on the bell housing casting. I'm interested in hearing from anyone that may help me with learning what those markings mean.

Thanks,

4DForDor
Click to expand...

Good to hear your making progress! Did you make sure to measure banjo bellhousing gaskets/ shims and replace with same thickness if you didn't touch bearings or gears?

Compliments of "Elrod"

The foundry would also place what were probably "lot" or "production" numbers in the castings on all blocks. These were usually a small group of letters and numbers cast on the top of the bell housing....right next to the vertical surface of the back of the block. Unfortunately, any records of these numbers are long gone and they provide no clues as to the particulars of any engines.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/flathead-numbers-to-tell-what-year-engine.267150/
 
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Thanks for the response and wisdom shared, Will D and Elrond.

Yes I did pay attention to the gasket thicknesses and replaced with same. I also took gear lash measurements after I removed the drive shaft housing, and before I took off the end bells. Gear lash was within the spec and the gears and bearings all looked good. I forgot to mention that I also replaced the rear wheel bearing and seals.

It looks like I’m not going to know much more about the engine until I do the tear down. Oh well, just more incentive to get the dirty work I’m doing now finished so that I can move on to the fun stuff.

Thanks again.
 
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