I started another post on here I think, I'm on 2 other old car forums, regarding the 6to12 conversion. I will have to find out about how I decide on the alternator, coil, distributor carb and adapter for the intake. Do they have to be from fomoco? I know the distributor has to have the right gears on the bottom. Does it have to be from say a 57 Ford or what? I know there's a handful of parts to change out and reducers installed but if I have to rewire it anyways, I may as well go for convenience and dependability. Hopefully someone will start a private message so we can discuss this dilemma in detail. I'm really new at this old car thing but very excited to learn.
First post 54 Lincoln
- Thread starter B-ster
- Start date
Thanks for the story yeoman about digging that Chevy outta the garage. I am quite anxious to get that socket on the crank to see if this motor is locked up after 57 years. I don't think I'll be able to actually spray into the cylinders enough to get all the way around the piston since they're on an angle and just the bottom will get lubed. Maybe I can find some lube in a can with a long spray tube that I can angle up to the top of the pistons. Although I might just go ahead and remove the heads and have free range to spray wherever and whenever I want, and be able to inspect the heads and do a valve job and whatever else it needs at the same time. Just so excited to see if it'll run without major rebuild.
58Yeoman
Senior Member
Do stick with one major job at a time, in this instance, you want to get your engine squared away first. If you take your engine apart, then jack the car up and remove all the brakes, for instance, it's easy to get overwhelmed with everything at once.
As you're working on the engine, do the small things on the car, like checking how the doors close, etc. When you DO start on the brakes, do one side at a time, so you can check the other side if you get in a bind (no pun intended). What you don't want to do is have your engine torn apart, the car jacked up with all the wheels/brakes off, and the wiring pulled out. Take your time and have fun getting this car back on the road, becaue when you do, you will feel a sense of real accomplishment.
Keep us posted with your progress.
As you're working on the engine, do the small things on the car, like checking how the doors close, etc. When you DO start on the brakes, do one side at a time, so you can check the other side if you get in a bind (no pun intended). What you don't want to do is have your engine torn apart, the car jacked up with all the wheels/brakes off, and the wiring pulled out. Take your time and have fun getting this car back on the road, becaue when you do, you will feel a sense of real accomplishment.
Keep us posted with your progress.
rotorwrench
Well-known member
The big Y-block is all on its own. They were used in Lincoln cars and big job trucks. The trucks used them longer than Lincoln but they had different displacements. You will need a Lincoln matching carburetor and distributor for a big Y. The 317s were used in all 1952 through 1954 Lincoln cars. The F7/700 and F8/800 big jobs will have different specifications than the Lincoln. Parts may be harder to find but not impossible. 341 & 368 parts may interchange but I don't know for certain.
The Load-O-Matic ignition system is all Holley and the carburetor is a direct part of the control system for spark advance/retard load control. One won't work well without the other. The 337 Lincoln had a combination vacuum and centrifugal advance set up but from what I've found so far, the 317 set up was vacuum only. The small y-block distributor is similar but has a different drive gear and likely has different springs in the distributor spark control housing.
The Load-O-Matic ignition system is all Holley and the carburetor is a direct part of the control system for spark advance/retard load control. One won't work well without the other. The 337 Lincoln had a combination vacuum and centrifugal advance set up but from what I've found so far, the 317 set up was vacuum only. The small y-block distributor is similar but has a different drive gear and likely has different springs in the distributor spark control housing.
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Yeah, since these parts are quite rare and expensive, that's why I'm thinking about just going ahead and change the distributor and carb out for something that's more plentiful and less expensive. Are you saying that with this 317 that I am stuck using just what came on this engine? Will nothing else work? Don't care for the proprietary aspect .
rotorwrench
Well-known member
The BYB engines racing history was confined to the Carrera Pan-American road race where the Lincoln finished first in 1954. The race was more about rugged reliability than high speed since they were driving on some of the worst roads in North America. There weren't a lot of aftermarket parts made for them so very few high performance parts were ever available. Very little crosses over to the little brother Ford Y-blocks.
The 317 was a respectable performer in its day but was rapidly becoming outdated. The next year the 341 came out and followed in 1956 by the 368 so they could finally break the 300 HP marker. Most aftermarket stuff available for the BYBs is made to fit to the 368 for the Lincoln Mark II group which is a rather limited group since they didn't sell a whole lot of them. Mercury ran the 368 for one year in 1957 which was the final year before the MEL engines were introduced.
I don't know about rare. There is likely a few decent EAD-9510-N or S core carbs out there that need a rebuild and the distributors are too since they aren't really practical to run on a small Y-block. Only the Lincoln folks would want or need them. I don't have a 1954 Lincoln parts catalog at hand so I don't know the part number of distributor you would need. I have all the parts catalogs and instruction manuals for the Mercury cars I own. You can never have too much information.
There were some aftermarket distributors made for them with their unique drive gear. I'm not sure what will replace the model 2140 carburetor but something may fit or an adapter plate could change things. It may be possible to go this route but making adjustments for distributor advance curve and carburetor efficiency would be by trial and error.
The 317 was a respectable performer in its day but was rapidly becoming outdated. The next year the 341 came out and followed in 1956 by the 368 so they could finally break the 300 HP marker. Most aftermarket stuff available for the BYBs is made to fit to the 368 for the Lincoln Mark II group which is a rather limited group since they didn't sell a whole lot of them. Mercury ran the 368 for one year in 1957 which was the final year before the MEL engines were introduced.
I don't know about rare. There is likely a few decent EAD-9510-N or S core carbs out there that need a rebuild and the distributors are too since they aren't really practical to run on a small Y-block. Only the Lincoln folks would want or need them. I don't have a 1954 Lincoln parts catalog at hand so I don't know the part number of distributor you would need. I have all the parts catalogs and instruction manuals for the Mercury cars I own. You can never have too much information.
There were some aftermarket distributors made for them with their unique drive gear. I'm not sure what will replace the model 2140 carburetor but something may fit or an adapter plate could change things. It may be possible to go this route but making adjustments for distributor advance curve and carburetor efficiency would be by trial and error.
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scicala
Well-known member
I don't know if anyone saw my earlier reply, or if they just don't care, but I know where there is a nice complete '54 Lincoln carb (EAD-N). May need a kit, to make very good. To me it doesn't make sense to start changing carb types, and distributors. More work and money.
That $700 price you saw is totally ridiculous. Just a greedy gouger. I've bought rebuildable cores for $50 before.
Sal
That $700 price you saw is totally ridiculous. Just a greedy gouger. I've bought rebuildable cores for $50 before.
Sal
rotorwrench
Well-known member
If you change engine then you will likely have to change the transmission as well. I think there are adapters to put a different transmission behind the old BYB such as the AOD but I'm not sure if folks have replaced them with An FE engine or not. At least I've not seen any hydramatic to FE adapters. The small block 302 and 351 engines have been put into about everything. More work but doable. The old 317 mounts were high on the side and most of Fords later engines were down a bit lower on the side. I'm not sure what they have for a rear cross member but that on hydramatic is LONG.
There was a time back in the 60s & 70s where a person couldn't find parts for the old Lincolns and Mercury cars. With the internet, things changed back to possible again. That is likely why the old car was taken apart in the first place. Those old motors are strong as an ox. My advice would be to look it over first and see if it is possible to resurrect it from the dead. It might be easier than you think.
There was a time back in the 60s & 70s where a person couldn't find parts for the old Lincolns and Mercury cars. With the internet, things changed back to possible again. That is likely why the old car was taken apart in the first place. Those old motors are strong as an ox. My advice would be to look it over first and see if it is possible to resurrect it from the dead. It might be easier than you think.
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dmsfrr
Well-known member
If you're considering this, get the transmission that came with the engine so you don't have to buy a pricey adapter. That $ will go toward making the newer engine fit in the frame, and all the other things that will need to change.
Fyi, if the '54 has dash gauges for coolant Temperature and Oil pressure they won't work right with a newer engine.
scicala
Well-known member
"Fyi, if the '54 has dash gauges for coolant Temperature and Oil pressure they won't work right with a newer engine."
dmsfrr is offline Report Post
If you transfer the coolant temp and oil presuure sensors from the original engine to the next engine, the original gages will work. I did that with a '52 Ford 6 cyl. when I swapped in a later V8.
Sal
dmsfrr is offline Report Post
If you transfer the coolant temp and oil presuure sensors from the original engine to the next engine, the original gages will work. I did that with a '52 Ford 6 cyl. when I swapped in a later V8.
Sal
I think I need to take a step back and consider originality. My wife, it's her car, wants ac for sure. It'll take me a while to find out if the one in this car will actually work. I'm almost sure I want 12 volt conversion since I know nothing about 6volt but do know the wiring is in need of changing out.
But, yesterday I hooked up a motorcycle battery that wasn't fully charged, to the cables the battery hooks up to, with jumper cables. Got tail lights, tried power seats and one of the switches did click, the other not. Tried all windows and heard motors make sounds. Headlights didn't work, but I don't have a key to turn on so that might be the reason now that I think about it, my brake pedal is stuck on the floor so the tail lights might be brake lights. Tail and headlights would work together. it was nice to see some life in the old girl.
So if I can find an original carb to get her running and 12 v conversion, it'll still be pretty close to original and less expensive than a swap. See I'm talking myself into it
Lots of decisions. My friend is lending me an endoscope so hopefully I can look into the cylinders thru the spark plug holes, that have been empty for God knows how long, and see if it's safe to turn her over by hand.
It's a little overwhelming when parts are scarce and there's not a choice to use anything else but original without a bunch of other problems. This is my first old, 6 volt car so there's a learning curve. That's why I'm on here and I do appreciate what y'all have to say.
But, yesterday I hooked up a motorcycle battery that wasn't fully charged, to the cables the battery hooks up to, with jumper cables. Got tail lights, tried power seats and one of the switches did click, the other not. Tried all windows and heard motors make sounds. Headlights didn't work, but I don't have a key to turn on so that might be the reason now that I think about it, my brake pedal is stuck on the floor so the tail lights might be brake lights. Tail and headlights would work together. it was nice to see some life in the old girl.
So if I can find an original carb to get her running and 12 v conversion, it'll still be pretty close to original and less expensive than a swap. See I'm talking myself into it
Lots of decisions. My friend is lending me an endoscope so hopefully I can look into the cylinders thru the spark plug holes, that have been empty for God knows how long, and see if it's safe to turn her over by hand.
It's a little overwhelming when parts are scarce and there's not a choice to use anything else but original without a bunch of other problems. This is my first old, 6 volt car so there's a learning curve. That's why I'm on here and I do appreciate what y'all have to say.
dmsfrr
Well-known member
Yes that's the easiest solution and works very well if they fit. I put a '55 sized Temp sensor into a '58 head, just drilled and tapped the bushing in the opening to the larger size and it fits fine, but it was close.
The older sensors seem to be larger than the newer ones.
Just something to be aware of and prepared for.
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KULTULZ
Well-known member
Does the car's A/C SYSTEM appear as this -
Your trans shift indicator appear as -
If so, it would be a shame (IMO) to resto-mod it. The engine size is 341CI and even retaining the LOAD-O-MATIC will get the job done.
Here is one source for parts-info - https://www.lincolnoldparts.com/?Session_ID=c2739e784b46af918f076a4af08e5948
Your trans shift indicator appear as -
If so, it would be a shame (IMO) to resto-mod it. The engine size is 341CI and even retaining the LOAD-O-MATIC will get the job done.
Here is one source for parts-info - https://www.lincolnoldparts.com/?Session_ID=c2739e784b46af918f076a4af08e5948
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rotorwrench
Well-known member
The 341 came in for 1955 along with the Turbo Drive medium case transmission. It was a one year only engine size but basically a modified 317. The 368 was the same basic design but had larger bore and stroke for 1956.
If the OPs car has an add on A/C unit, that can be a big advantage. The in car unit will have to have functional controls, motor, and evaporator coil but if it's all beyond repair then it can all be replaced with some other add on unit that does work. Is this an underdash unit?
If the OPs car has an add on A/C unit, that can be a big advantage. The in car unit will have to have functional controls, motor, and evaporator coil but if it's all beyond repair then it can all be replaced with some other add on unit that does work. Is this an underdash unit?
The ac does have the big box in the trunk with plastic tubes shooting the 'cold' air over the head's of the people in the back seats. It has the 317 engine and a small Harley looking compressor motor under the hood. I try adding pics but it keeps saying upload failed. Somebody on here did upload some pics for me from an email I sent him. Tried again and it said 'security token missing' whatever that means
58Yeoman
Senior Member
Using lincolnoldparts.com has a 53 carb for $700 + $350 core, and a 54 dizzie for $650 + $325 core. That would be very close to $2000 right out of the gate, as B-ster doesn't have any cores. Even if he had to have some work done by someone else, it might be cheaper to go with a newer engine/trans.