Fender brace I.D., Please

kgriff

kgriff

Senior Member
Have a set of stamped fender braces that pretty much match the shape of a 28-29 fender brace, but only have two frame mounting holes instead of the three that the other braces have. Can someone please enlighten me as to what they are from/for. Thank you.
 

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I think they were used with the eye brow fender if not mistaken. Don or Marco can step in on that one. I have a set and that is what I was told but have no facts...sorry
 
They look just like a set I have that came from a 1929 Ford. To my knowledge all mounting front brackets for 28-29 or 30-31 have 3 hole mounting; this includes the forged style for 28-29 and the forged style for 1930 .
 
That's what is odd about them, they only have two holes. They are kind of rusted and buggered up on that end, maybe they where modified at one time.
 
kgriff said:
Have a set of stamped fender braces that pretty much match the shape of a 28-29 fender brace, but only have two frame mounting holes instead of the three that the other braces have. Can someone please enlighten me as to what they are from/for. Thank you.
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Those are early '30 brackets. My dates are estimates but basically it went like this. The new 1930 models began production at the end of November 1929 and had the "new" two hole bracket similar to your pics. The corresponding frame had FOUR mounting holes so both the new and previous three hole bracket could be used (servicing previous models). My best guess is the two hole bracket was used through February +/-.

Now, keep in mind all commercial models (and Station Wagons) continued to be built with the '29 style bodies and fenders until early June 1930. The two hole type fender brackets were made for use with the early type fenders which were used in production during this same time period. I do wonder however if they were continued longer with the commercial models than with the '30 type fenders on passenger cars. That is just a question in my own mind as a possibility.
 
Marco,

Just goes to show that I learn somthing new every day. Thanks for the explination of the front fender braces. Hard to believe that after 47 years of being around A's I have never run into the 2 hole bracket !!!!!

Ron
 
Gentlemen. I also have had three of these braces that matched each other in contour. They appeared to be the correct shape, but when applied to a fender, the countour was not quite right and if you placed the outer fender brace hole at the fender mounting hole the headlight bars would not line up. Additionally, none of the frame side rail drawings or the assembly drawings show the required four holes for mounting. The fourth hole would also require a change in the 'boss' stamped in side rail. I am not a very experienced Model A guy, but have never seen a frame with a different 'boss' or a fourth hole. Neither frame assembly drawing A-5005-C/D originally dated 9/30/29 nor siderail drawings A-50015-B and A-5016-B show these changes. What am I missing? I may end up regretting giving these brackets away. Can anyone help set me straight?
 

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I had talked to Don Bivens about these and he said the ones with the two holes virt. were used on the 30,s early and I suppose that would of been with the first light bar with the lic plate holder in the center, and the ones that the two holes were side by side were 29. The pair I have are straight up and down and I agree I have never see a frame with those extra holes in them.....but I wasnt looking for it eather. They also have a hole in the top and it looks like it is for a fender light???? best I can do for now
 
RockHillWill said:
Gentlemen. I also have had three of these braces that matched each other in contour. They appeared to be the correct shape, but when applied to a fender, the countour was not quite right and if you placed the outer fender brace hole at the fender mounting hole the headlight bars would not line up. Additionally, none of the frame side rail drawings or the assembly drawings show the required four holes for mounting. The fourth hole would also require a change in the 'boss' stamped in side rail. I am not a very experienced Model A guy, but have never seen a frame with a different 'boss' or a fourth hole. Neither frame assembly drawing A-5005-C/D originally dated 9/30/29 nor siderail drawings A-50015-B and A-5016-B show these changes. What am I missing? I may end up regretting giving these brackets away. Can anyone help set me straight?
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Ok, you forced me to look up info to see why you didn't find the proper data. It seems like every time someone looks something up it costs me HOURS to fill in the gaps!

I can't explain your fit problem experiences except to assume the wrong version of the brackets for the fender type. As I noted above, they were made for both '29 style fenders and '30 style fenders and they DO fit when not bent! There was no change in the boss on the side rails.

There are two problems when researching from the drawings on file. First, the drawings are FAR from complete, i.e. many missing drawings and/or versions. Second, there is a very common misconception that production changes follow the timelines of the engineering releases and corresponding drawings. Sometimes its very close and other times it's WAY off.

This is a pic of Steve Pluckers PDF on frame changes:
frame_data-01.jpg

I never looked at this before but knew Pluck had to have the info because he was very thorough. It's worth noting that these brackets were used BEFORE the introduction of the stamped steel headlamp bar.

As an example of research problems, here is one I encountered not long ago. As many folks are aware, the radiator shell used on early production Model A's had hood lacing woven back and forth through holes in the shell flange. One researcher looked up the drawings on the shell lacing and found the lacing was changed to the familiar "hourglass shape" documented 11/21/27. As such, it was proposed the Judging Standards be changed to reflect that detail. It seemed unrealistic (to put it nicely) that such lacing could or would be used on the early shell. Additionally, decades of experience of MANY folks with original parts indicated otherwise. To me that little bit of research was about as complete as a two legged table! The other two legs were easily found (but ate up time) in researching the the radiator shell. You may have guessed it, the shell was also redesigned on 11/21/27 with rivet holes for the new lacing.

Again, those of us in the hobby all these years are well aware that the "new" shell was not introduced until mid-late February 1928 at the earliest. Had the research been complete from the beginning the reality would have been apparent within an hour. Unfortunately, it's not always so quick and easy to reconcile dating issues where engineering data conflicts with reality. Familiarity with the actual parts being researched as well as the potential impact on corresponding parts or assemblies is very important when doing research.

It's not my intent to infer these issues apply to you (you probably weren't even looking for that in particular!) but wanted to give an idea of what is occurring with much of the research happening today.


 
Re: Fender brace I.D., Thanks

thanks Marco. I wasn't looking for that front fender info, and just happened to have the drawings so I did NOT do appropriate research for that. Your insight will aid me if I do additional research, and I will continue to glean info as it is presented here.
 
Not a great picture but this is a brace on my Nov 29 built 30 Town Sedan. This is an unrestored car with eyebrow fenders. I also have a number of loose sets of these for both 29 and 30 fenders.

TownSedanBrace.jpg
 
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