Fathers Old Ford

H

Hookster

Junior Member
Hello everyone,
Recently brought home my late fathers' '36 Deluxe Tudor. He bought it in the early 80's and started a body off restoration. He got it mostly reassembled, then changed jobs and put it in storage. When he retired, he moved to Tennessee; built a new home and never finished the car.

I have been involved with old motorcycles and just recently finished a rebuild of a '47 knucklehead that I've had for 45 years. However due to my own health issues, I'm not comfortable trying to ride it.

I was never a big fan of this car because I really like the coupes. But it is time for it to be back on the road, and I need help sorting out what I've got.

The engine has been rebuilt, but never started. The engine is not original to this car. It is a 24 stud with 81A iron heads which I believe is a '38.

I have 2 generators, but it looks like only one of them has correct bracket to bolt to manifold. But I'm really wondering which is the best generator to use. If the bigger gen. is better, I could change the manifold.

I have found the correct hoses at Drake to connect to the '36 radiator. I assume it will take 2 thermostats.
 

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The car looks like it is in really good shape but was wondering if it wouldn't be best to install a new wiring harness. I have been reading several threads here discussing this issue. But not seen much about the difference in 6 volt and 12 volts in regard to new wire harnesses. I noticed that Speedway says their wire harness is suitable for most 12 v. cars. Half the voltage, twice the amperage.

Also, what is the switch or dial in the center of steering wheel? Headlights?

The car has the original radio which was working in the 80's.

Thank you in advance for any help. I am sure to have more questions.
 
Hookster said:
Hello everyone,
Recently brought home my late fathers' '36 Deluxe Tudor. He bought it in the early 80's and started a body off restoration. He got it mostly reassembled, then changed jobs and put it in storage. The engine has been rebuilt, but never started. The engine is not original to this car. It is a 24 stud with 81A iron heads which I believe is a '38.
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Look for a reprint of the reference (owners) manual. That will answer many of your questions. The switch in center of wheel is for headlights if it’s similar to my 39.
 
If the engine hasn't been started since it was rebuilt in the 80's, I'd tear it down and check it out good before doing anything else to it. My 2¢
 
Lawson Cox said:
If the engine hasn't been started since it was rebuilt in the 80's, I'd tear it down and check it out good before doing anything else to it. My 2¢
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I was thinking about pulling heads and intake to check bore for rust or trash. You just convinced me to get with it. Thank you.
 
These tires have zero miles on them, and I know I should replace them. Do wide 5 wheels come in different widths? I'd like to have a wider tire in the rear.
 
Hookster said:
These tires have zero miles on them, and I know I should replace them. Do wide 5 wheels come in different widths? I'd like to have a wider tire in the rear.
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Those wide-fives are 4" wide. They will easily accommodate 7.00 X 16" tires.


Coop

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To answer your question, there were some truck wheels that were wider (I believe 5"). However, they are rare as hens's teeth. I saw a thread (I think it was on the H.A.M.B.) where someone removed the centers and mounted them into late '90's Dodge minivan rims which are 6" or 7" wide. In the dark recesses of my mind, I also seem to remember something about rims from some Toyota's and temporary spares being the right size.

Maybe someone over there can help. Also, the "Search" function over there is a lot better that the one here. Back in my dirt track modified racing days we made a lot of wide fives from 8" to 12" wide using aftermarket hoops.
 

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Looks like a really nice start to an easy project! Everybody likes coupes but...once you start looking at the practicality of a sedan and then compare them to the cars everybody else has these days an old Ford sedan starts looking pretty cool! I noticed somebody advised to tear the rebuilt motor apart to inspect it since it's been sitting so long. That would be the ideal thing to do...but it's also a way to create more work. I would suggest ranking it over with the plugs out and putting an oil pressure gauge on it to see if it will build any oil pressure. Maybe even pull the manifold and dump some oil around on the lifters. If you can get oil circulating and it has decent compression I would just run it. Keep the oil pressure gauge on it when you start it and if it builds up good oil pressure once running don't worry about it. As for wiring, a new reproduction harnes is always nice. On the other hand you could just get a wiring diagram and buy some roles of wire and connectors and create your own wiring harness....there aint much in the way of wiring to these things anyway! Just use modern wire, no need to insist on original style cloth wiring.
 
If the engine is brand new and has never been ran, then it may have old assembly lube in it (or not) - that can coagulate. The "lubriplate" stuff comes to mind. Imagine starting it and there isn't enough lube in those brand-new bearings?

If it was mine, I'd at least pull the heads, see if any valves are rusted (the ones up), clean/lubricate the bores, etc. I'd also pull the pan and check things out. I'd then see if I can easily turn it over with a breaker bar to get an idea how "tight" it might be. If it feels quite tight, I'd surely not start it.

Better Yet: In a perfect world, I'd pull the engine, put it on a stand, pull the pan, check to see if there is lubrication in the main/rod bearings, etc.. I'd put new assembly lube in all the right places (in the oil-pump, bearings, bores, valve guides, etc). This is by far the best way to go - and you'll know that everything is in top-shape when you start it.

Why Take a Risk - It's a New Engine: If you think about it, it costs probably $6,000 minimum to have one of these engines built - why not put some time into it and potentially save yourself a lot of money and/or headaches because you were in a hurry. It has been 40+ years at this point - what is a bit more time. :rolleyes: Also, you can sleep at night because you know what condition all the parts are in, and you'll know things are done right. If there happens to be any issues - you fix them before you start the darn thing.

Wiring: If the wiring is original/old, you should be able to buy a complete wiring harness that should drop right in. There is no issue with sticking with 6Volts - there are not many accessories on these old cars and the ones you have - will want 6 volts.

Fuel Pump: The fuel-pump will at least need a rebuild and a new diaphram (for today's fuels). You might want to contact 'Charlie NY' and have him rebuild it. BTW, it is better to rebuild these pumps than buy the repops. The repops usually have the wrong springs in them and the pressure output is too high.

Water Pumps: I'd send them to 'Skip Haney' and have him rebuild them with his high-flowing impellers and bearings (instead of bushings). You'll have better cooling and they won't leak over time.

Distributor: I would pull it and send it to Michael at ThirdGen or Charlie NY and have it checked out, will need a new condenser, maybe a new coil, new points, etc.. Also, they will spin it up on a distributor machine and set it up correctly.

Having the key components looked at, rebuilt and tested will go a long way to making sure you're really ready to drive the car - and enjoy the flathead in it!

Enjoy your Pop's car - get it on the road and remember him!

Okay, enough coffee in me today . . . back to work!
B&S
 
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Ditto Charlie and Skip. ANY new Ford I get I’ll send the carb and fuel pump to Charlie. I’ll also send the coil and water pumps to Skip. It’s and automatic matter of practice for me.
 
Bored&Stroked said:
If the engine is brand new and has never been ran, then it may have old assembly lube in it (or not) - that can coagulate. The "lubriplate" stuff comes to mind. Imagine starting it and there isn't enough lube in those brand-new bearings?

If it was mine, I'd at least pull the heads, see if any valves are rusted (the ones up), clean/lubricate the bores, etc. I'd also pull the pan and check things out. I'd then see if I can easily turn it over with a breaker bar to get an idea how "tight" it might be. If it feels quite tight, I'd surely not start it.

Better Yet: In a perfect world, I'd pull the engine, put it on a stand, pull the pan, check to see if there is lubrication in the main/rod bearings, etc.. I'd put new assembly lube in all the right places (in the oil-pump, bearings, bores, valve guides, etc). This is by far the best way to go - and you'll know that everything is in top-shape when you start it.

Why Take a Risk - It's a New Engine: If you think about it, it costs probably $6,000 minimum to have one of these engines built - why not put some time into it and potentially save yourself a lot of money and/or headaches because you were in a hurry. It has been 40+ years at this point - what is a bit more time. :rolleyes: Also, you can sleep at night because you know what condition all the parts are in, and you'll know things are done right. If there happens to be any issues - you fix them before you start the darn thing.

Wiring: If the wiring is original/old, you should be able to buy a complete wiring harness that should drop right in. There is no issue with sticking with 6Volts - there are not many accessories on these old cars and the ones you have - will want 6 volts.

Fuel Pump: The fuel-pump will at least need a rebuild and a new diaphram (for today's fuels). You might want to contact 'Charlie NY' and have him rebuild it. BTW, it is better to rebuild these pumps than buy the repops. The repops usually have the wrong springs in them and the pressure output is too high.

Water Pumps: I'd send them to 'Skip Haney' and have him rebuild them with his high-flowing impellers and bearings (instead of bushings). You'll have better cooling and they won't leak over time.

Distributor: I would pull it and send it to Michael at ThirdGen or Charlie NY and have it checked out, will need a new condenser, maybe a new coil, new points, etc.. Also, they will spin it up on a distributor machine and set it up correctly.

Having the key components looked at, rebuilt and tested will go a long way to making sure you're really ready to drive the car - and enjoy the flathead in it!

Enjoy your Pop's car - get it on the road and remember him!

Okay, enough coffee in me today . . . back to work!
B&S
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You said a month full there. I've made notes and have found contact information on Charlie and Skip. Thank you very much, I thank everyone for their comments.

I've never disassembled a flathead, but I assume after pulling the intake manifold i would be able to see the tappets. I would think if assemble lub was used on the main bearings that it would be also used on the tappets, and I should be able to see it. I'm going to try to do this Tomorow. I've removed the spark plugs and put Marvels Mystery oil in the cylinders.

I remember back in the 80's, my father had me pick up adjustable tappets from Early Ford Parts in Memphis Tn. I don't know if they are still in business, but I think it'd be scary to go back to that neighborhood now. It's getting pretty wild around there.

Does Skip rebuild Carburetors too?

Wow, I did not realize that it cost that much to rebuild a flathead.
 
Bored&Stroked said:
If the engine is brand new and has never been ran, then it may have old assembly lube in it (or not) - that can coagulate. The "lubriplate" stuff comes to mind. Imagine starting it and there isn't enough lube in those brand-new bearings?

If it was mine, I'd at least pull the heads, see if any valves are rusted (the ones up), clean/lubricate the bores, etc. I'd also pull the pan and check things out. I'd then see if I can easily turn it over with a breaker bar to get an idea how "tight" it might be. If it feels quite tight, I'd surely not start it.

Better Yet: In a perfect world, I'd pull the engine, put it on a stand, pull the pan, check to see if there is lubrication in the main/rod bearings, etc.. I'd put new assembly lube in all the right places (in the oil-pump, bearings, bores, valve guides, etc). This is by far the best way to go - and you'll know that everything is in top-shape when you start it.

Why Take a Risk - It's a New Engine: If you think about it, it costs probably $6,000 minimum to have one of these engines built - why not put some time into it and potentially save yourself a lot of money and/or headaches because you were in a hurry. It has been 40+ years at this point - what is a bit more time. :rolleyes: Also, you can sleep at night because you know what condition all the parts are in, and you'll know things are done right. If there happens to be any issues - you fix them before you start the darn thing.

Wiring: If the wiring is original/old, you should be able to buy a complete wiring harness that should drop right in. There is no issue with sticking with 6Volts - there are not many accessories on these old cars and the ones you have - will want 6 volts.

Fuel Pump: The fuel-pump will at least need a rebuild and a new diaphram (for today's fuels). You might want to contact 'Charlie NY' and have him rebuild it. BTW, it is better to rebuild these pumps than buy the repops. The repops usually have the wrong springs in them and the pressure output is too high.

Water Pumps: I'd send them to 'Skip Haney' and have him rebuild them with his high-flowing impellers and bearings (instead of bushings). You'll have better cooling and they won't leak over time.

Distributor: I would pull it and send it to Michael at ThirdGen or Charlie NY and have it checked out, will need a new condenser, maybe a new coil, new points, etc.. Also, they will spin it up on a distributor machine and set it up correctly.

Having the key components looked at, rebuilt and tested will go a long way to making sure you're really ready to drive the car - and enjoy the flathead in it!

Enjoy your Pop's car - get it on the road and remember him!

Okay, enough coffee in me today . . . back to work!
B&S
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X 2 Also very important to keep RPMs up when you do start it. You'll do well to keep posting as you go along. Good luck, Craig.
 
I'm not sure who on the Barn rebuilds the Holley/Ford style 94's. They are an easy carb to work on - so you might check with Charlie and Michael at ThirdGen.

Lifters: You'll probably not see much as far as what type of lubrication they used on them - but you never know. This brings up the issue of making sure the cam and lifters have a lot of break-in lube on them - for when you first start the engine. I've always used a heavy moly type lube on flat-tappet cams (liberally coating all the lobes).

I realize I gave you a long list of things to do - and impatience can get the best of us. But, the engine has been sitting so long and you really don't know what condition everything is in until you check.

If you pull the heads, pull the intake and pull the pan - you can get a pretty good idea and make decisions from there. If the bores and valves look good, I'd be most concerned about having enough assembly lube in the bearings to ensure they are well lubricated to start with. Your engine has 'full-floating' rod-bearings - so it actually needs lubrication on BOTH sides of the bearings.

Another thing to potentially help out and might allow you to leave the whole short-block together is to use a pre-lube oiling pot to pump pressurized oil into the engine and then manually turn it over and ensure that oil is getting to all the right places. The best way is to do this with the pan off (though it is messy), but you can see if you're getting good oil flow out of the rod bearings, mains, cam, etc..

Also, if you can work on old Knuckle Harleys, you can surely work on a flathead . . . they're almost brothers! LOL
 
Bored&Stroked said:
I'm not sure who on the Barn rebuilds the Holley/Ford style 94's. They are an easy carb to work on - so you might check with Charlie and Michael at ThirdGen.

Lifters: You'll probably not see much as far as what type of lubrication they used on them - but you never know. This brings up the issue of making sure the cam and lifters have a lot of break-in lube on them - for when you first start the engine. I've always used a heavy moly type lube on flat-tappet cams (liberally coating all the lobes).

I realize I gave you a long list of things to do - and impatience can get the best of us. But, the engine has been sitting so long and you really don't know what condition everything is in until you check.

If you pull the heads, pull the intake and pull the pan - you can get a pretty good idea and make decisions from there. If the bores and valves look good, I'd be most concerned about having enough assembly lube in the bearings to ensure they are well lubricated to start with. Your engine has 'full-floating' rod-bearings - so it actually needs lubrication on BOTH sides of the bearings.

Another thing to potentially help out and might allow you to leave the whole short-block together is to use a pre-lube oiling pot to pump pressurized oil into the engine and then manually turn it over and ensure that oil is getting to all the right places. The best way is to do this with the pan off (though it is messy), but you can see if you're getting good oil flow out of the rod bearings, mains, cam, etc..

Also, if you can work on old Knuckle Harleys, you can surely work on a flathead . . . they're almost brothers! LOL
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I see you are from Ohio. My father bought this car in Ohio while he worked at the Siemens-Allis plant in Cincinnati. His buddy that walked him through this rebuild was Paul Freeze. He also worked at the Ohio plant. He had quite the car collection which included several Model A's.
 
A lot of good info in the contributions to this thread...
I have dealt with a lot of engines that have not been ran in many years, I have found that in many cases an engine that has not been turned over for many years can have some serious problems in the bore and valves. I would suggest blowing any debris away from the spark plug recess's before you pull the plugs, then pore several oz of Marvel Mystery oil into each cylinder. Let the MMO sit for several days then try to turn the engine over by hand. Repeat the turning of the engine over several times, letting the engine rest for several days between attempts to tying it over.

In all probability the engine will most likely need to be torn down, however, I have saved a lot of engines with the MMO treatment.
The generators you have appear to be two brush '39 or later, however, I did not note a pulley to accommodate a fan blade on the front of the generator. The '36 Fords had three brush, shunt wound generators where-as '39 and later have two-brush with a regulator mounted on the firewall.
I would suggest you join the Early Ford V8 Club, then look around for a Regional Group in your area... This could provide you with a lot of local hands on help with the project of bringing the '36 back to life.
 
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