Ethanol out the door

mccsix

mccsix

Senior Member
As of 6/1/13 Florida just outlawed MANDATORY use of ethanol gas. Stations now have a choice to sell corn gas or not. This is despite Fed regs to the contrary. The report also said gas could come down as much as a dollar a gallon....yeah sure I'll hold my breath:D
 
mccsix said:
The report also said gas could come down as much as a dollar a gallon...:D
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Hmm, not likely, fuel grade Ethanol sells for about 1.74 a gallon. At 15% which is the maximum blend, that would net out to a savings of about 26 Cents a gallon, and most stations offer a 10% blend, only bringing the price down to .17cents per gallon of gasoline. And that is presuming that the costs of keeping Non Ethanol fuel separate from Ethanol Fuel in the supply chain do not actually add to the costs to get it to the pump, and presuming that 100% of the discount is handed over to the consumer. ;) Lets face it, they could advertise non Ethanol, sell it for a nickle more per gallon, and people will still buy it. With fuel margins in the single digits, what do you suppose will happen.

Furthermore upcoming subsidies will be further reducing the price of Ethanol per gallon, guess who will be paying for that?

The Stations in FL will also need to find a source for the Ethanol Free Fuel. None of the refineries that I could find are currently producing it.

The same issue has come to the Legislation in Maine. They passed a law indicating that non-Ethanol fuel can be sold, but are unable to buy any. This with Irving being the largest retailer of Gasoline in the state, and they have a refinery locally that produces fuel for the new England States. Irving said that at least two additional neighboring states would have to pass the same mandate for it to be cost effective to custom blend the fuel.

noboD said:
I'll bet their federal highway $$ dries up.
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Would not be the first time the Feds have withheld Highway funds. They did it here in NH until we passed Martin Luther King Day, prior to that the Holiday was called Civil Rights Day.
 
Is it legal to make it without ethanol? If not, don't expect any. The cost you quote doesn't include the cost of replacing the octane taken out. Ethanol is a around 108 octane and that must be made up at some cost vs the 87 of regular.
 
Strange. If ethanol is 108 octane why does my truck run better on non-ethanol gas? Not questioning the 108 figure, I just don't understand. In addition I get 3 mpg more on non-eth gas, drawback is it was $4.90 a gal last time I used it 3 weeks ago.
 
Non-Ethonol gas has been available in Florida, forever, I guess.
I tool this photo of my '35, several years ago.
MIKE :)
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You get more mileage on non ethanol gas because it takes about twice as much alcohol to go the same distance as regular gas, thus less mileage.
 
Forget lower prices,or cheaper non-ethonal gas. This from a Florida guy on the Early V8 forum.

They just put in an ethanol-free pump at the gas station down the road from me but the only bad thing is $4.29 instead of the $3.41 for regular unleaded.
 
Jeff/Illinois said:
I was told by a gasoline truck driver that I know quite well, several years ago, that the Ethanol is blended in with the gasoline at the bulk plant NOT at the refinery as was stated here. f.
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You are correct. I ignored that fact because here in New England, Irving owns the refineries and the two Bulk Plants that service the region. I should have realized it is not like that everywhere.

The Ethanol is mixed into the bulk storage tank while the ship is being unloaded. When Mobil, Shell, BP etc all pull in to get their tankers filled, each ones "Personal Formulation of additives" is mixed as the individual tanker is filled. But the Ethanol is added by the owner of the refinery into the Bulk tanks for storage/distribution into New England, There are no special tanks for non-ethanol fuel.
 
Rusty,
ethanol doesn't fire as pure as normal gas, hence it takes more to go the same distance and does bring down your gas mileage.

thought they drank "gator aid" down in FL....?
 
Non ethanol fuel is readily available here in NC. There are two stations within 3 miles of my house that sell it as mid grade.
It is all I run in my collector cars and my lawn equipment. Damned ethanol ate the seat area out of some of my small engine carbs when I lived in Connecticut.
Lots of horror stories associated with it in equipment and vehicles not designed to run it.
 
Jeff/Illinois said:
I was told by a gasoline truck driver that I know quite well, several years ago, that the Ethanol is blended in with the gasoline at the bulk plant NOT at the refinery as was stated here. The refinery ships pure gasoline. Besides, think about it. Ethanol is so corrosive the oil companies aren't going to 1.) risk screwing up THEIR oil pipelines with a competitor's fuel and 2.) provide a distribution method, for a competitor that they truly hate.

He said that often times the truck drivers mess up and put too much or not enough Ethanol in, so '10%' is only an appeasement figure it's seldom ever actually 10 percent.

When I worked for Deere years ago they told us that the Fed. subsidizes that crap at 55 cents per gallon. I'm sure it's much more today. IF they sold Ethanol fuel for what it really costs, straight gasoline would be cheaper and people always go for cheaper when they fill up. Even the tree huggers would not use the stuff.
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The oil companies own lots of the terminals. Trust me, they won't violate Federal law. They are too bureaucratic to get away with anything illegal. I worked for the biggest for 31 years.
 
QGolden said:
You are correct. I ignored that fact because here in New England, Irving owns the refineries and the two Bulk Plants that service the region. I should have realized it is not like that everywhere.

The Ethanol is mixed into the bulk storage tank while the ship is being unloaded. When Mobil, Shell, BP etc all pull in to get their tankers filled, each ones "Personal Formulation of additives" is mixed as the individual tanker is filled. But the Ethanol is added by the owner of the refinery into the Bulk tanks for storage/distribution into New England, There are no special tanks for non-ethanol fuel.
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Ethanol is added at the terminal. Can't be done at the refinery since too much chance of water getting in a turning the gasoline milky. Want to buy milky gasoline? I thought not.
 
John S said:
You get more mileage on non ethanol gas because it takes about twice as much alcohol to go the same distance as regular gas, thus less mileage.
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Well not twice as much alcohol but the energy content is lower. Ethanol is 35% oxygen by weight. No btus in oxygen only in carbon. Milage has proven to be 3 or 4% lower.
 
Rusty Homestead Fl said:
Strange. If ethanol is 108 octane why does my truck run better on non-ethanol gas? Not questioning the 108 figure, I just don't understand. In addition I get 3 mpg more on non-eth gas, drawback is it was $4.90 a gal last time I used it 3 weeks ago.
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Running better does not depend on octane. Higher octane is only good for avoiding pinging. Octane is a measure of the resistance to pre-ignition or pinging.
 
Jeff/Illinois said:
I was told by a gasoline truck driver that I know quite well, several years ago, that the Ethanol is blended in with the gasoline at the bulk plant NOT at the refinery as was stated here. The refinery ships pure gasoline. Besides, think about it. Ethanol is so corrosive the oil companies aren't going to 1.) risk screwing up THEIR oil pipelines with a competitor's fuel and 2.) provide a distribution method, for a competitor that they truly hate.

He said that often times the truck drivers mess up and put too much or not enough Ethanol in, so '10%' is only an appeasement figure it's seldom ever actually 10 percent.

When I worked for Deere years ago they told us that the Fed. subsidizes that crap at 55 cents per gallon. I'm sure it's much more today. IF they sold Ethanol fuel for what it really costs, straight gasoline would be cheaper and people always go for cheaper when they fill up. Even the tree huggers would not use the stuff.
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I believe it. Pure Ethanol absorbs water, so standard pipeline transportation is pretty much out of the question - I'd guess that 99% of all ethanol is transported via rail or tank truck (there are a few proprietary ethanol pipelines).
 
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