Starting to feel stupid. Timed engine after difficult time finding TDC. Replies to previous threads were helpful.. Thanks to all. Engine wouldn't start. Gas coming out of zenith carb where air filter goes. Pulled plugs. 1 and 4 dry. 2 and 3 wet. Used probe camera to check function of valves. All moving up and down.. Engine only as 11.3 miles on it since complete engine rebuild. Engine sat for 7 years before I purchased car. Shame on me for buying car without running engine. What should I look for at this point? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in ADVANCE.
EngineS wouldn't start
- Thread starter a guy
- Start date
Mitch//pa
BANNED
see if you have a strong blue spark when cranking key on holding coil wire at 1/4 gap to head nut..
did you clean and adjust the points???? very common on a car that sat
is the fuel fresh???
fuel coming out of the carb is normal when vehicle is not wanting to run... so your getting flow..
was it running before you set the timing??????
did you clean and adjust the points???? very common on a car that sat
is the fuel fresh???
fuel coming out of the carb is normal when vehicle is not wanting to run... so your getting flow..
was it running before you set the timing??????
Last edited:
Model A Man
Well-known member
When I bought my first model A years ago, it was running but I wanted to see what made it tick. I 're timed it and it wouldn't start. I 're timed it over and over.and after really looking at what I was doing I found out I was timing it 180 degrees of. After I timed it correctly it started. Another time after playing with it for what seemed like hours to get it started I found I never turned the key on. I have also done it when forgetting to turn the gas on. Just my 2 cents.
Patrick L.
Well-known member
Check for spark as Mitch said. If no spark let us know.
Are you familiar with starting procedures ?
To check for correct timing,
http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm
Are you familiar with starting procedures ?
To check for correct timing,
http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm
1955cj5
Well-known member
This may be a one-off but when we tried to start the ccpu after it had been sitting several years we found that the ignition switch had failed.....so no power to the points....
Have you got power at the points? You can check with a voltmeter across the open point gap, with the key on...
Also maybe try a new or different condenser if you have one
Have you got power at the points? You can check with a voltmeter across the open point gap, with the key on...
Also maybe try a new or different condenser if you have one
Brentwood Bob
Well-known member
do a thread search.
29A Turns over won't start
There is a test protocol in that thread that walks you thru the Ignition system.
I would start at the battery and work toward the spark at the plug.
All the connections need to be clean, and tight, especially the ground from the battery to the frame. The 6 volt system needs good connections and a strong battery.
do not start changing parts and doing much else until you find out what is wrong.
Got anybody closeby to help you? This a good time to hook up with the local club.
Bob
29A Turns over won't start
There is a test protocol in that thread that walks you thru the Ignition system.
I would start at the battery and work toward the spark at the plug.
All the connections need to be clean, and tight, especially the ground from the battery to the frame. The 6 volt system needs good connections and a strong battery.
do not start changing parts and doing much else until you find out what is wrong.
Got anybody closeby to help you? This a good time to hook up with the local club.
Bob
H. L. Chauvin
Well-known member
Idiot Proof Model A Ignition Timing ...... Only For Non-Idiots:
1. For those who can read digital clocks & cannot read time on a clock with hands; or even for those who cannot find four o'clock on a distributor, or even know enough analytical geometry to understand what is meant by having a rotor set at 180 degrees off?
2. For those who get confused with the terms clock-wise (CW) & counter-clock-wise (CCW) rotation on the distributor shaft when adjusting timing because of having lots of play back & forth with the rotor, having lots of play with the distributor shaft, and the erratic opening of points before or after TDC?
3. For those cannot understand mathematical fractions to set the timing with the metal rotor tip being close to the no. 1 spark plug lug in the distributor body?
4. For those who already read every message herein under "Search"; read every article "ever" written on the internet and "ever" written in books on timing a Model A engine ........... and still get confused?
5. For those who are confused with enlarging the opening in the rear side of the distributor body and adjusting the rotation of the steering column to adjust the spark rod length?
6. For those who once perfectly timed a Model A engine, and now forgot how one did it before; & after re-studying all articles on same are still confused?
7. For all those who can put a man on the moon but are not familiar with Model A timing ......... immediately before pushing your Model A into a nearby deep lake, "maybe" try this:
After setting your Model A timing like you think it should be; and with your distributor completely assembled:
a. Push the spark rod on the left of the steering wheel all the way up; then turn the ignition switch "ON"; and remove all (4) spark plugs so the engine can easily be rotated by hand.
b. Connect the top of the plug nearest the radiator, (No. 1 plug) to the distributor body with the plug's connector; lay this plug on its side to establish a good ground on top of the engine so it will spark when the distributor shaft turns CCW and opens the points.
c. Unscrew and remove the timing pin, reverse it and slip it into the timing cover hole.
d. While pressing on the reversed timing pin, & while rotating the engine with the hand crank, (it can be rotated only one way with the hand crank so forget about CW & CCW), the timing pin should slip into the recess in the timing gear when the no. 1 engine piston is at TDC.
e. At the "exact" time when the timing pin slips in the timing gear, the connected spark plug should produce a spark in the spark plug gap for proper timing ...... and if it sparks when the timing pin does not slide in the recess, the engine is not timed correctly and setting the proper timing is in order.
If any of the above is more confusing than all of the articles ever written and/or is more confusing than all of the Model A timing information heard of ..... do not give up "yet" ....... and:
I. Try going to a store to buy a case of the most expensive beer you can find.
II. Drive to the nearest lawn mower repair shop, offer him the case of beer, and ask the lawn mower repairman if he will kindly come to help you time your Model A.
III. If all of this does not work, try another lawn mower repairman.
Sincerely hope this will help to save a Model A from taking a swim in a deep lake because the timing is off.
1. For those who can read digital clocks & cannot read time on a clock with hands; or even for those who cannot find four o'clock on a distributor, or even know enough analytical geometry to understand what is meant by having a rotor set at 180 degrees off?
2. For those who get confused with the terms clock-wise (CW) & counter-clock-wise (CCW) rotation on the distributor shaft when adjusting timing because of having lots of play back & forth with the rotor, having lots of play with the distributor shaft, and the erratic opening of points before or after TDC?
3. For those cannot understand mathematical fractions to set the timing with the metal rotor tip being close to the no. 1 spark plug lug in the distributor body?
4. For those who already read every message herein under "Search"; read every article "ever" written on the internet and "ever" written in books on timing a Model A engine ........... and still get confused?
5. For those who are confused with enlarging the opening in the rear side of the distributor body and adjusting the rotation of the steering column to adjust the spark rod length?
6. For those who once perfectly timed a Model A engine, and now forgot how one did it before; & after re-studying all articles on same are still confused?
7. For all those who can put a man on the moon but are not familiar with Model A timing ......... immediately before pushing your Model A into a nearby deep lake, "maybe" try this:
After setting your Model A timing like you think it should be; and with your distributor completely assembled:
a. Push the spark rod on the left of the steering wheel all the way up; then turn the ignition switch "ON"; and remove all (4) spark plugs so the engine can easily be rotated by hand.
b. Connect the top of the plug nearest the radiator, (No. 1 plug) to the distributor body with the plug's connector; lay this plug on its side to establish a good ground on top of the engine so it will spark when the distributor shaft turns CCW and opens the points.
c. Unscrew and remove the timing pin, reverse it and slip it into the timing cover hole.
d. While pressing on the reversed timing pin, & while rotating the engine with the hand crank, (it can be rotated only one way with the hand crank so forget about CW & CCW), the timing pin should slip into the recess in the timing gear when the no. 1 engine piston is at TDC.
e. At the "exact" time when the timing pin slips in the timing gear, the connected spark plug should produce a spark in the spark plug gap for proper timing ...... and if it sparks when the timing pin does not slide in the recess, the engine is not timed correctly and setting the proper timing is in order.
If any of the above is more confusing than all of the articles ever written and/or is more confusing than all of the Model A timing information heard of ..... do not give up "yet" ....... and:
I. Try going to a store to buy a case of the most expensive beer you can find.
II. Drive to the nearest lawn mower repair shop, offer him the case of beer, and ask the lawn mower repairman if he will kindly come to help you time your Model A.
III. If all of this does not work, try another lawn mower repairman.
Sincerely hope this will help to save a Model A from taking a swim in a deep lake because the timing is off.
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
I'll go one step further and say DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING until you trouble shoot and find the problem. Even then nothing may need to be changed. As Mitch mentioned, the points may need to be cleaned.
H. L. Chauvin
Well-known member
Not enough time to write a detailed "Idiot Proof" Model A fuel problem .... have to go to work ...... however from past experience, if plugs 1 & 4 are dry and 2 & 3 are wet with gas, "maybe" investigate further
1. After seven (7) years in storage, sticky valves may be "seen" to move up and down ..... but maybe they do not seat tightly and seal the combustion chamber enough to cause a partial vacuum to draw in fuel; and/or,
2. If you have an intake manifold gasket leak(s), there will not be enough vacuum to draw fuel in combustion chamber's 2 and 3.
Just hope this helps.
1. After seven (7) years in storage, sticky valves may be "seen" to move up and down ..... but maybe they do not seat tightly and seal the combustion chamber enough to cause a partial vacuum to draw in fuel; and/or,
2. If you have an intake manifold gasket leak(s), there will not be enough vacuum to draw fuel in combustion chamber's 2 and 3.
Just hope this helps.
hardtimes
Well-known member
Hey a guy,
Nothing to feel 'stupid' about here !
'what should I look for now'.....IMO, a Model A Ford club mentor/guide.
This is not rocket science, however without experience/protocol it may as well be.
Brentwood Bob has it succinct and direct and I'd follow his input given your circumstances. Engine has sat many years without start...is a mouthful,eh !! You have no clue whether it is even all there and together properly. For instance, lets say that the 'builder/assembler' put the cam /crank gears on ..just a little off
! Maybe this engine never ran after tinkering ? If you get started down the wrong rabbit hole, you may end up in lalaland , never to solve. Start with list of things checked, say if starting with electrical... BATTERY is first thing, as it will never run without GOOD battery, connections, defective parts, proper installation, etc..
If you have no mechanical /engine experience, now may be time to study/take apart/learn. As a beginner, a written log/notes of what you've done (finished/not) will help keep the confusion down. Even when you go fetch an experienced mechanic, he will find your written record helpful and can explain what you may have missed. Good luck
BTW...pictures will help us help you.
Nothing to feel 'stupid' about here !
'what should I look for now'.....IMO, a Model A Ford club mentor/guide.
This is not rocket science, however without experience/protocol it may as well be.
Brentwood Bob has it succinct and direct and I'd follow his input given your circumstances. Engine has sat many years without start...is a mouthful,eh !! You have no clue whether it is even all there and together properly. For instance, lets say that the 'builder/assembler' put the cam /crank gears on ..just a little off
! Maybe this engine never ran after tinkering ? If you get started down the wrong rabbit hole, you may end up in lalaland , never to solve. Start with list of things checked, say if starting with electrical... BATTERY is first thing, as it will never run without GOOD battery, connections, defective parts, proper installation, etc..If you have no mechanical /engine experience, now may be time to study/take apart/learn. As a beginner, a written log/notes of what you've done (finished/not) will help keep the confusion down. Even when you go fetch an experienced mechanic, he will find your written record helpful and can explain what you may have missed. Good luck
BTW...pictures will help us help you.
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
If an ignition switch is DEFUNCT & it will only run with a jumper wire across it, try turning the switch OFF & ON, about 37 times & sometimes that will "SHINE" up the contacts, inside the switch. Remember how humidity craps up & corrodes points, WELL, the same thing could happen in the switch. I've seen the same thing happen at the junction box nuts, even when they're TIGHT & NO visible signs of corrosion!! IF so, remove the nuts & add some internal or external "STAR" washers, they're a GROUNDS' BEST FRIEND!!
Bill W.
Bill W.
wensum
Senior Member
Not entirely relevant, but my rebuilt/improved motor sat for about 4 years before I tried to start it.
It spun over OK but there appeared to be no spark.
With light bulb and leads I tracked power right to the points, but only one side.
This was a completely new distributor from Snyders and it turned out that there was a film of corrosion on the points.
I pulled some fine sandpaper through a few times and to my great relief it started instantly.
With no muffler, my goodness the beast roared and gathered revs very rapidly.
It augers well for this "touring" motor.
Keith
It spun over OK but there appeared to be no spark.
With light bulb and leads I tracked power right to the points, but only one side.
This was a completely new distributor from Snyders and it turned out that there was a film of corrosion on the points.
I pulled some fine sandpaper through a few times and to my great relief it started instantly.
With no muffler, my goodness the beast roared and gathered revs very rapidly.
It augers well for this "touring" motor.
Keith
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
Wensum,
You're my kind of guy, great fun firing it off sans exhaust pipe! It's great when doing final tuning with it off. You can hear EVERYTHING that's going on with EVERY cylinder. I love to drive mine for a month, with NO HOOD! The Dog
will help me remember, the hood's under the bed, in the guest room!Bill W.
H. L. Chauvin
Well-known member
Hi a guy,
"Starting to feel stupid."
In a classroom environment, or on a Forum, this feeling can always be corrected by asking questions.
Then one finds that the remainder of the class or Forum had the exact same question but were not brave enough to ask.
In a classroom or a Forum, those who ask questions are usually the best and most intelligent teachers.
Hope this makes you feel better.
"Starting to feel stupid."
In a classroom environment, or on a Forum, this feeling can always be corrected by asking questions.
Then one finds that the remainder of the class or Forum had the exact same question but were not brave enough to ask.
In a classroom or a Forum, those who ask questions are usually the best and most intelligent teachers.
Hope this makes you feel better.
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
NEVER feel you're STUPID for askin' QUESTIONS here! LIKE, I don't know how to do BRAIN SURGERY, ur TIPE well, & have trubble with sendng pics, at times!! Asides that, we CAIN'T see your RED face, whin you ask!!
Bill W.
Bill W.