Engine Timing

Woodie1

Woodie1

Well-known member
I have just replaced the timing gear on our TUDOR.I think this is the 3rd time in the 42 years I've had it. When I originally rebuilt the engine I used new standard size crank & cam gears. The new timing gear I used today was the laminated standard size. When I started the engine, it sounded like a tractor & I could sense a lot of missing at the carb throat. Before I removed the old cam gear I hand cranked the engine until the 2 timing marks lined up. It took me about 5 tries to get the cam gear to line up with the locating pins when I installed the gear. My curiosity now is I'm wondering if the cam gear may have been marked in the wrong location. How can you tell if it's marked in the right location? I never thought to match it up with the old gear. It has very little power at this time.
 
I have the same question. Is it possible that the timing gears could have the dimple in the wrong place? I have been trying to time my engine and after much effort and putting on a timing plate on from NU-REX along with checking the compression of cylinder #1 it was reasoned that the dimple was in the wrong place on the gear. I will be the first to admit I am learning the mechanics of the engine. And I got the engine from someone who got the engine from a guy that had "rebuilt it" so with that said I could be wrong and missing things. So to all you guys that know everything forgive me for messing up this post but from what I can tell the dimple is on the wrong place of the gear.
 
BoysToys1928A said:
I have the same question. Is it possible that the timing gears could have the dimple in the wrong place? I have been trying to time my engine and after much effort and putting on a timing plate on from NU-REX along with checking the compression of cylinder #1 it was reasoned that the dimple was in the wrong place on the gear. I will be the first to admit I am learning the mechanics of the engine. And I got the engine from someone who got the engine from a guy that had "rebuilt it" so with that said I could be wrong and missing things. So to all you guys that know everything forgive me for messing up this post but from what I can tell the dimple is on the wrong place of the gear.
Click to expand...
At one time, probably about 40 years ago, someone made a batch of timing gears with the dimple in the wrong place.

Charlie Stephens
 
I just had my old fiber timing gear replaced with a new laminated version, about 2 weeks ago. There were no issues lining up the marks and my car runs perfectly again. It would be hard to imagine a new laminated gear having the dimple wrong, but I guess it is possible. You are absolutely sure you lined them up right?
 
Terry, if I understand the location of the gear, it doesn't make any difference where the timing gear is positioned when you remove it as long as it goes onto the 2 locating pins.
 
Here is a picture Tom posted of the timing gear marks lined up.

Bob
 

Attachments

  • Timing Marks.jpg
    Timing Marks.jpg
    78 KB · Views: 463
"Terry, if I understand the location of the gear, it doesn't make any difference where the timing gear is positioned when you remove it as long as it goes onto the 2 locating pins. "

uh oh
 
Some book or books used to show the gear timing one tooth off. They showed the dimple lined up with the left side of the keyway, rather than the correct RIGHT side of the keyway.

Once the gears are correctly timed and the front cover back in place, then make sure the rotor is in this position when the timing pin drops into the cam gear dimple.
 

Attachments

  • Timing Gear Marks.jpg
    Timing Gear Marks.jpg
    78 KB · Views: 131
  • Timing Rotor Position.jpg
    Timing Rotor Position.jpg
    66.7 KB · Views: 124
That is how I have things set Tom. Once the old gear was removed I did not turn the crank. This should have put the timing in the right position.
 
are the marks on the two gears lined up just as in Tom's pic? That is not clear from what you wrote

the crank or the cam can shift while you are trying to get the alignment dowels correct..... it only takes one tooth off to make a huge difference, which is what it sounds like
 
You may want to review this link just to make sure all is well with the dimple relative to the gear, and the crank gear to the woodruff as well.

In addition, is it possible you have a Model B cover on your engine that you used to be timed to, but now prevents you from properly timing it by the book?

That would not be the first time that scenario has caught readers on fordbarn.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/camcrankalignment.htm
 
Forever4. The timing cover is the same one that I've had on the engine for 42 years & 3 different timing gears. The procedure I went through is the same as the previous times I replaced the gear. It just seems that something has happened in the process to give the erratic running. I'm going to leave it alone for a couple days & then get back to it & see if I can figure it out.
 
Most likely the cam shifted a bit while you were doing the 5 tries to get the gear on. As noted above, it only takes a bit. Check the mark alignment per to pics.
 
Pay attention to the photos Tom has posted and Vince's link and info on his website, use an inspection mirror if need be and make sure your marks are lined up. Vince (Forever4) posted a somewhat uncommon issue but does occur which produces results as you've described. We are all just trying to aid you ( for free) with your dilemma. It's not necessary to use the other bronze gears, etc.. just fix what you have. If installed properly and not of oversize it should be fairly quiet. It would be worth removing the timing cover again to make sure all is correct and that the gear is in fact on the end of the camshaft fully and tight. You can then inspect all teeth to make sure you don;t have any issues.
15-20 minutes and you're there.

Also, another problem that causes timing issues to change are older junk repro distibutor drive gears that were 2 piece where the gear was pressed on. I have had several of those I diagnosed and replaced over the years. Just throwing that out as many aren't aware of those kind of defective parts. Vince has a parts " hall of shame"
He doesn't have that one on there but we should add it when one of us finds one next time.
Hopefully the solution is easier as opposed to harder for you.
Please post the solution and outcome.
larry Shepard
 
Thanks Larry. I do appreciate all the suggestions on what to try. I spent half the night tossing possibilities around in my head & got to wondering if I had put the cam plunger & spring back in. I took a quick trip out to the garage this morning & smelled gas. I forgot to turn the shut off to the off position. Now I need to let the garage air out before doing anything in there. The plunger & spring weren't found so they must be where they belong.
 
If I understand you replacement procedure correctly, you removed the old cam gear and replaced it with the new one without checking the alignment because you said you didn't move the crank and cam from their removal positions and you just put the new gear on. I think you need to remove the timing cover and rotate the engine and check to see if the two gears are aligned properly.
 
I agree with AL. You could also have a over size timing gear that is binding, which is causing the cam to move back and forth.
 
I always line up the marks on the old gears before removal , then install the new ones and double check the alignment
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top