Engine temp rises when I get to cruise speed

Hey Brassworks/Lee - couple points:

1) Given that this whole thread references cooling/heat issues on the highway at higher speeds, how would pusher/puller or any fans actually help that situation?

I completely understand their usage when the car is not moving or moving slowly (idling, stop n' go or very slow-speed situations) - but do not see how they'd help with a cruise situation at higher speeds?

Please educate us on this particular part of the conversation.

2) Radiator Front Pan - he put that back on awhile ago.


Thanks for getting on the thread . . . your comments are not "piling on".

B&S
 
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Funny about the term piling on. Seems that few posters even bother to read through previous postings before jumping in blindly at the end. The OP posted about installing the lower pan way back at post # 40.


Another thing about suppliers who obviously have considerable knowledge, why don't they make suggestions to their clients on best product for the application? I know many do, but many do not also.
 
ford38v8 said:
Funny about the term piling on. Seems that few posters even bother to read through previous postings before jumping in blindly at the end. The OP posted about installing the lower pan way back at post # 40.


Another thing about suppliers who obviously have considerable knowledge, why don't they make suggestions to their clients on best product for the application? I know many do, but many do not also.
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This appears to be to be exactly the "piling on" that "The Brassworks" is trying to avoid. I think their repiy was quite reasonable and I appreciate it.
 
ford38v8 said:
Funny about the term piling on. Seems that few posters even bother to read through previous postings before jumping in blindly at the end. The OP posted about installing the lower pan way back at post # 40.

Another thing about suppliers who obviously have considerable knowledge, why don't they make suggestions to their clients on best product for the application? I know many do, but many do not also.
Click to expand...

Mea culpa, I did not see post #40.

There are suppliers of products and manufactures who make custom products. Your question/observation is likely to get two different answers for obvious reasons.
 
Bored&Stroked said:
Hey Brassworks/Lee - couple points:

1) Given that this whole thread references cooling/heat issues on the highway at higher speeds, how would pusher/puller or any fans actually help that situation?

I completely understand their usage when the car is not moving or moving slowly (idling, stop n' go or very slow-speed situations) - but do not see how they'd help with a cruise situation at higher speeds?

Please educate us on this particular part of the conversation.

2) Radiator Front Pan - he put that back on awhile ago.


Thanks for getting on the thread . . . your comments are not "piling on".

B&S
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The fan (or fans) are not doing much above 40 mph but if the shroud is blocking air and the hot fins interact with hot air you can heat soak. If it heat soaks and ceases to transfer heat the system cannot recover. I suggest removing it to determine if it a contributing factor.

I missed the post where he put the panel back on. Most radiators are designed to meet the pan which, with the tank being flush to the core, and this prohibits advancing the core forward for a thicker core. We can build thicker radiator cores for notched pans and construct stepped/cantilevered headers to go over the top of un-notched pans.
 

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The Brassworks said:
The fan (or fans) are not doing much above 40 mph but if the shroud is blocking air and the hot fins interact with hot air you can heat soak. If it heat soaks and ceases to transfer heat the system cannot recover. I suggest removing it to determine if it a contributing factor.

I missed the post where he put the panel back on. Most radiators are designed to meet the pan which, with the tank being flush to the core, and this prohibits advancing the core forward for a thicker core. We can build thicker radiator cores for notched pans and construct stepped/cantilevered headers to go over the top of un-notched pans.
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Thanks for the reply - it seems we are on the same page as far as fans being of any help at higher speeds.

Nice to know about some of the 'options' to fit bigger radiator cores into constrained places. I can see how this might really help in some situations. I'll ponder this when I'm ready (finally) to have you guys build a custom radiator for my car.

I think we'd all like to see his problems solved and for him to have a cooler running engine under all conditions - hopefully we'll get there soon.

B&S
 
Thanks to all that are responding to this post.

First off Lee I think all of this could've been avoided if you offered me a larger core. I did tell you this was for a supercharged flathead motor. I assume you know that flatheads have cooling issues without a supercharger so I'm a little baffled as to why this was not offered to me. As the expert, you should've told me or at least offered a suggestion that I needed the bigger core.

Second, I'm definitely not going to run two fans to try and solve the problem.

Third, I will try removing the shroud and fan, but I already explained to you that the fan motor is connected to the shroud so the motor can't be taken off and installed. I would have to go back to a pusher fan which we already know did not do the job. If you think the puller will do a better job than the pusher, I can try to fabricate some brackets to get it mounted. Tell me how far the fan blades need to be from the core. I have an older puller fan that may be too big, but I could also see if I could get that to fit.

I don't want to run the car without any fan with the coolant mixture I have in there now which is mostly water. I'm concerned with boil over.

It seems to me that the radiator itself is not doing the job.

I'm open to suggestions as to how we get this corrected.
 
You'll surely need enough 'fan' to keep the engine cool at idle and at slower speeds. What I can't tell you is whether or not a combination of a fan/shroud (potentially restricting air flow at higher speeds) is compatible with achieving maximum air flow at cruise speeds - and that your radiator core has enough capacity to cool the engine with the amount of air going through it (with fan installed).

Once you pull the fan/shroud and run without ANY fan (at cruise speeds), you'll have another data point to apply in the design of a potential solution.

Unless you're experiencing a lot of fan restriction at cruise speeds, my guess is that you'll need a bigger core that can dissipate more heat.

Time will tell . . . best of luck!
B&S
 
Hey Guys,

I’ve been following this thread from the beginning. Here’s my take. Jrvariel48 has put in hours and hours of labor doing his his due diligence in trying to find the cause of the overheating problem other than just a faulty radiator. Instead of continuing to find fault with Jrvariel48, it’s time for Lee at Brassworks to step up with an immediate solution - a new larger radiator. It’s the right thing to do.


Richard
 
Ronnieroadster said:
Since the temp went to 180 just sitting in the driveway with the outside temp at 86 that's not good. The temp difference you discovered from top to bottom using the heat gun is showing there's an issue with the radiator design. The air flow across the tubes/fins on the highway should be dropping the temp more than what your seeing. I would expect a reading of 180 on the highway however since its already at that point just idling in the driveway there's no way what your working with is going to get better.

Understanding how the flathead exhaust ports are super heating the water in the block a difference of only 15 degrees is not good.

What I would do if you haven't already is set the initial ignition timing at 12 degrees with a total all in of no more than 25 degrees. Personally I have never used a boost retard I see no reason for it unless the boost your getting is going above 10. If you do not see any reduction in the driveway temp after doing this in my opinion there's not much your going to do with the radiator you have.
Ronnieroadster
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So Ronnie, on your blown engines do run 25 d at full boost?? Mine runs 5lbs of boost but as stated my boost retard scales it back anywhere from 1 to 3 d per pound of boost. I usually set it for 2 d so that brings my total advance back to 16 total advance. I have not tried setting it back to say 1 d per lb. This is what Mark Kirby (RIP) suggested when this engine was built in the 90's. I will give it a try at 1 deg.. There is 30,000 miles on this engine and it has been quite reliable so far putting out excellent power.
 
I read somewhere that if the coolant flows too quickly through the radiator it doesn't have time to cool. Maybe the design of the aluminum radiator slows down the flow. Could that be happening here?
 
Bored&Stroked said:
You'll surely need enough 'fan' to keep the engine cool at idle and at slower speeds. What I can't tell you is whether or not a combination of a fan/shroud (potentially restricting air flow at higher speeds) is compatible with achieving maximum air flow at cruise speeds - and that your radiator core has enough capacity to cool the engine with the amount of air going through it (with fan installed).

Once you pull the fan/shroud and run without ANY fan (at cruise speeds), you'll have another data point to apply in the design of a potential solution.

Unless you're experiencing a lot of fan restriction at cruise speeds, my guess is that you'll need a bigger core that can dissipate more heat.

Time will tell . . . best of luck!
B&S
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My thoughts exactly B&S!
 
Ricosan said:
Hey Guys,

I’ve been following this thread from the beginning. Here’s my take. Jrvariel48 has put in hours and hours of labor doing his his due diligence in trying to find the cause of the overheating problem other than just a faulty radiator. Instead of continuing to find fault with Jrvariel48, it’s time for Lee at Brassworks to step up with an immediate solution - a new larger radiator. It’s the right thing to do.


Richard
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Thank you Richard, I couldn't agree more. I've also spent a lot of money on this. I understand this hobby very well, but what's right is right!!
Thank you Joe
 
solidaxle said:
I read somewhere that if the coolant flows too quickly through the radiator it doesn't have time to cool. Maybe the design of the aluminum radiator slows down the flow. Could that be happening here?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that so I don't want to comment on that theory.
Thank, Joe
 
Thanks again to all the responders!

I'll try to get the fan/shroud off this weekend if possible. and get another fan installed without a shroud to see how we do. I'll post the results as soon as I can.

Thanks, Joe
 
jrvariel48 said:
Thanks again to all the responders!

I'll try to get the fan/shroud off this weekend if possible. and get another fan installed without a shroud to see how we do. I'll post the results as soon as I can.

Thanks, Joe
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Joe I believe you have already gone over the top to determine the answer. After 40 plus yeas in the racing industry I believe (hope) I have learned a little about cooling systems.
You only need the fan (s) for traffic or low speed. Other than that they are junk in the way. Brassworks knows this no doubt in my mind. Anything other than removing radiator to install correct core is just wasting time. Sorry calling it how it is.
Your blown engine still (respectfully) makes little hp. And with correct core will run very cool as even with blower added BTU,s it should be easy to cool. Just trying to help with my many years of experience. (I have been wrong before but doubt it in this case).
I believe it’s time to stop wasting energy and correct the problem. Cheers mate.
Tony
 
hotrodcbx said:
So Ronnie, on your blown engines do run 25 d at full boost?? Mine runs 5lbs of boost but as stated my boost retard scales it back anywhere from 1 to 3 d per pound of boost. I usually set it for 2 d so that brings my total advance back to 16 total advance. I have not tried setting it back to say 1 d per lb. This is what Mark Kirby (RIP) suggested when this engine was built in the 90's. I will give it a try at 1 deg.. There is 30,000 miles on this engine and it has been quite reliable so far putting out excellent power.
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Yes I go to 25 max with no boost retard. But to do this you need gas that has to have a high octane rating.

When I was running my 258 CI flathead with a 671 GMC blower combination on the street when I felt the need to beat on the engine I would use 100NL gas from the local airport. I had lots of street miles on that engine in the thousands like yours.

That 258 cube engine powered my Land Speed Lakester race car. When I converted the Lakester to a Rear Engine Modified Roadster for testing I used that little old 258 engine. Testing on a runway in Maine resulted in a speed of 171 MPH the record on the salt flats at the time was 138. Still to this day I do not use any ignition retard with the race engine combination I can tell you the boost seen with the blower combinations I run are well over 10.

My flathead and ARDUN blower street combinations also put out boost higher than 5 lbs with no ignition retard being used.
Ronnieroadster
 
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