Engine swap

[Twrench~70]

Hey guys, I was just wondering if this question has been answer...…? Probably a hundred or so. I own a 38 standard Tudor with a 60 H.P flattie and I was wondering if it would be a lot of altering to implant an 85H.P. flattie into my car and a three speed ******.

 

[Kurt in NJ]

Radiator ,engine ,trans ,rear ratio, frame is thinner,
I drov a 39 60 hp for a while, drove it a lot on the parkway at 65, it would do its full 74 as advertised, as soon as it would slow to 45 on hills go into second for best fuel mileage, it took going over 65 to get it under 20 mpg --- there is no torque, wind it out

 

[V8COOPMAN]

You essentially have to remove the 60 H.P. motor mounts that attach over the 85 horse mounts on the front crossmember. The trans mounts are useable as is. Replace the wimpy radiator with an 85-type in the appropriate (existing) mount holes and you're about done. You will, of course, still have that weenie rear end ratio that was likely factory-installed. You can change the ring and pinion to something more highway-friendly, or live with it. DD

 

[51 MERC-CT]

Did a swap on a '38 standard many years ago.
As I recall removing rivets that attach the 60hp engine mounts were the worst part of the operation.
Believe that the motor mount holes for the 85 already exist.
Don't recall if I replaced the transmission.

 

[JSeery]

Don't recall if I replaced the transmission.

Believe it's a different bolt pattern, so about had to unless someone had an adapter out.

 

[51 MERC-CT]

Believe it's a different bolt pattern, so about had to unless someone had an adapter out.

You are probably right, just don't recall doing it and considering that at the time in the early 50's, I had a pick of transmissions (from piles of them) ,I probably replaced it.
Also did the hydraulic brakes conversion.

 

[V8COOPMAN]

Believe it's a different bolt pattern, so about had to unless someone had an adapter out.

It's the same bolt pattern, but the starter situation has some goofy aspect to it that escapes me. Having an Uncle Joe moment, I guess! DD

 

[JSeery]

It's the same bolt pattern, but the starter situation has some goofy aspect to it that escapes me. Having an Uncle Joe moment, I guess! DD

I was fairly sure there was an issue of them not working behind a full-size flathead, something about same gears inside but a different case. Not sure why they would go to all the trouble to make a different unit if it has the same gears and the same bolt pattern. But I have very limited experience with them and it was years ago. Had a 38 coupe with a v60.

 

[V8COOPMAN]

I was fairly sure there was an issue of them not working, something about same gears inside but a different case. Not sure why they would go to all the trouble to make a different unit if it has the same gears and the same bolt pattern. But I have very limited experience with them and it was years ago. Had a 38 coupe with a v60.

There were two "60" transmissions offered. The weenie one for the car had weenie gears. Apparently the COMMERCIAL (pick-up) 60 horse trans had the "robust" gears found in the "real" (85 horse) transmissions. Sometimes what Henry did defies logical (to us) explanation. DD

 

[JSeery]

Looked it up on Wilcap. He claims that the v85 and v60 have the same rear block bolt pattern. So, guess that is not the issue.

 

[pete rose]

Radiator ,engine ,trans ,rear ratio, frame is thinner,
I drov a 39 60 hp for a while, drove it a lot on the parkway at 65, it would do its full 74 as advertised, as soon as it would slow to 45 on hills go into second for best fuel mileage, it took going over 65 to get it under 20 mpg --- there is no torque, wind it out[/QUOTE





Beg to differ on the frames being different.
They are the same

 

[V8COOPMAN]

Looked it up on Wilcap. He claims that the v85 and v60 have the same rear block bolt pattern. So, guess that is not the issue.

Yep, they are the same bolt pattern. Here's a pic of the dainty little 60 horse trans. Note the different starter arrangement, and only four bolts holding shifter on. DD

 

[skidmarks]

The commercial "60" trans that used 85 hp gears, did it use a 6 bolt shifter top? Or was it a 4 bolt with forks to work with the 85 gears?

 

[V8COOPMAN]

The commercial "60" trans that used 85 hp gears, did it use a 6 bolt shifter top? Or was it a 4 bolt with forks to work with the 85 gears?

I honestly can't remember! Someone will chime-in. DD

 

[Chris Marshall]

I once had a '39 REA (Railway Express Agency) box truck that was a factory V860. It had the commercial trans. Case had the 60 starter arrangement, normal 85 gearset, and double detent top. Had the earlier syncro's with the narrow fork.

My understanding is an 85 trans can be bolted to a 60 with some clearance work in the starter area.

An interesting note - this was essentially a driveaway cowl chassis with body added by an aftermarket. No access to the master cylinder. It had a remote fill located on the firewall. Only one I've ever seen.

That was a heavy truck - not sure how the 60 moved it empty, much less loaded!

 

[Lanny]

The commercial "60" trans that used 85 hp gears, did it use a 6 bolt shifter top? Or was it a 4 bolt with forks to work with the 85 gears?

=============================================



The commercial "60" trans did have the 6 bolt shifter top with "85" gears.
The standard "60" trans has the smaller gears and 4 bolt shifter top.
The V/8 60 trans has about a 1 inch input shaft. My clutch is 8 1/2".

Click on pic to Enlarge

 

[V8COOPMAN]

My understanding is an 85 trans can be bolted to a 60 with some clearance work in the starter area.

Back in '63 as a sophomore in hi-school, I purchased my first car....a '39 Deluxe Tudor that came to me with a blown-up 85 horse flathead. Not knowing a whole lot better, I came across a little V8-60 that I bolted right up to the 85 horse trans after I fabricated some front engine mounts compatible with the "60". I don't remember doing anything special to make the trans or starter bolt-up. The engine cranked as it should. Sold the car to the same guy I bought it from in early '65 when we moved to Texas. DD

 

[richard crow]

bolt patern on the wheels is the same how ever the rims are a smaller with. back in the day the saying was you could clime a hill faster then a 60 hp ford

 

[Kurt in NJ]

Radiator ,engine ,trans ,rear ratio, frame is thinner,
I drov a 39 60 hp for a while, drove it a lot on the parkway at 65, it would do its full 74 as advertised, as soon as it would slow to 45 on hills go into second for best fuel mileage, it took going over 65 to get it under 20 mpg --- there is no torque, wind it out[/QUOTE





Beg to differ on the frames being different.
They are the same

Yes I was wrong, the frame thickness difference is between open cars and closed--- closed 0.10", open cars 0.11"---- taken from service bulletins

 

[JSeery]

Getting a good education on v60 transmissions!