Engine swap at factory?

Tom from Drippin'

Tom from Drippin'

Senior Member
My '31 Victoria has a different engine number than the frame number. While this is not unusual, the numbers are only 11,956 apart.
The frame number is 4301547, and the engine is 4313503.
The info. I have indicates that the original engine was made on Tuesday, Jan. 27th. Engines were produced on Jan. 28, but there was no further production until Monday, Feb. 2nd, the date of my replacement engine.
This could be just a coincidence, but what is the possibility that the original engine had problems and was replaced at the factory?
I realize that the engines were "run" by electric motors before installation, but they were "run" without fuel or spark. Could there have been a problem when it came time to drive it off the line, that required an engine swap?
I find it hard to believe that EVERY engine ran after being installed (zero failures).
Comments, please.
 
It does not bother me to drive an "illegitimate" car. I just thought it is VERY coincidental that the two numbers are only two manufacturing days apart.
I also thought it would make for good discussion.
 
Generally there were more engines sitting around than cars to put em in. Up to 2 months if i remember right. The frame got stamped the engine number once it was dropped in.

Now i do fully agree even tho the engines were broke in via electric motors they weren't started/driven till the car was done and yes I'm certain not every engine started off the line. Theres just no way every engine ran when talking about mass production.

Unfortunately besides whimsical thinking there is no way to verify this. I would think somewhere they would restamp the current engine number somewhere if this were the case. Have you checked every square inch where a number could have gotten stamped with the body on? I doubt they would lift the body back off BUT i wouldnt be suprised if the re stamped the number somewhere else accessible.

OR it could have just been a stroke of luck. maybe your car and the donor car were shipped to the same dealer in the same town and stayed there and eventually the donor car got in a wreck or scrapped.

This is one of those only time will know.
 
Tom, I honestly believe for you to accept my answer, you must first go take a tour of a Ford Assembly Plant. I have toured the F150 plant and saw first-hand what happens when 'defects' or malfunctions happen once the vehicle was assembled. If the vehicle was 'repaired' as you suggested at the Branch (Assy Plant), in all likelihood they would have installed a Service Replacement engine which would not have been stamped at the Rouge plant. This would have allowed the Foreman to correctly stamp your engine prior to it being shipped. The same applies if the engine was replaced at a Service Agency where the mechanic would have stamped the correct number onto the replacement engine.


To me what is more believable in your scenario is something such as run low on oil or a freeze crack happened and the donor engine likely came from a wrecked vehicle. The close proximity of numbers is merely coincidence because vehicle numbers were rarely sequential throughout the entire day on one assembly line, ...and then consider the 'randomness' you would have between vehicle numbers in 30+ assembly plants located across the country. So that we are clear, since you mentioned January 27th, let's suppose we could have stopped the clock at exactly 2:21PM and compared the vehicle numbers of each Model-A driving out the door at each one of those Branches. Surely we would all realize those vehicle numbers would not be anywhere close to sequential, --and further to the point, how random do you think the numbers were on each of those vehicles??
 
SeaSlugs said:
Have you checked every square inch where a number could have gotten stamped with the body on? I doubt they would lift the body back off
Click to expand...
I did not think to do that 8 years ago, but did not easily see any other markings. I only checked the engine # at first and found it to be a '31 and therefore probably correct. It wasn't till after the car was finished that I did the engine / frame # comparison.
 
SeaSlugs said:
Generally there were more engines sitting around than cars to put em in. Up to 2 months if i remember right. The frame got stamped the engine number once it was dropped in.

Now i do fully agree even tho the engines were broke in via electric motors they weren't started/driven till the car was done and yes I'm certain not every engine started off the line. Theres just no way every engine ran when talking about mass production.

Unfortunately besides whimsical thinking there is no way to verify this. I would think somewhere they would restamp the current engine number somewhere if this were the case. Have you checked every square inch where a number could have gotten stamped with the body on? I doubt they would lift the body back off BUT i wouldnt be suprised if the re stamped the number somewhere else accessible.

OR it could have just been a stroke of luck. maybe your car and the donor car were shipped to the same dealer in the same town and stayed there and eventually the donor car got in a wreck or scrapped.

This is one of those only time will know.
Click to expand...




Tom, in reality they really were not broken in on the Dynamo. Comparing the size of those test beds to motors at The Henry Ford, it appears they were slow turning DC motors. My theory is those engines were run for maybe 10 revolutions solely to check the amp draw. When you study the surroundings, you will notice there is a quick-connect hose that was attached to the inlet port on the cylinder case. There was a two-port valve that allowed water to enter the engine only up to the cylinder head however the engine was sans the upper water neck. Since the head was not torqued due to the missing water neck and the missing nut on the stud for the ignition cable clamp, there would a potential problem with a water entering the combustion chamber if it were too full.


I am of the belief the engine nor the transmission had any oil/lube in them during this process. The draining process would have been too slow after the dynamo testing, and the engine/transmission could not have been shipped and/or warehoused without leaks in the inverted position we have seen. Bringing this full-circle, the engine break-in period likely happened after the vehicle was delivered to the new owner.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
Tom, If the vehicle was 'repaired' as you suggested at the Branch (Assy Plant), in all likelihood they would have installed a Service Replacement engine which would not have been stamped at the Rouge plant. This would have allowed the Foreman to correctly stamp your engine prior to it being shipped.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Brent
That's an answer I had not thought about. It's still quite a coincidence.
 
When I rebuilt the engine for my RDPU the original engine had been replaced and I looked around to find a rebuildable engine that was as close as possible to the date of my vehicle. Maybe that is the explanation to what you have found.

Charlie Stephens
 
Charlie Stephens said:
When I rebuilt the engine for my RDPU the original engine had been replaced and I looked around to find a rebuildable engine that was as close as possible to the date of my vehicle. Maybe that is the explanation to what you have found.

Charlie Stephens
Click to expand...

This is the "Container Vicky" found abandoned in a container on the New York / New Jersey docks after 911. From it's condition, I seriously doubt a previous owner looked for a near-matching number.
 
Being that the numbers are so close, it could be that someone just made a mistake at the factory or the repair center, or anywhere in the Ford system. When outputs are in the millions, statistically you will see just about every kind of weird and funny mistake. That's my experience anyway, and that was in managing production lines putting out only thousands, not millions.
 
Tom from Drippin' said:
This is the "Container Vicky" found abandoned in a container on the New York / New Jersey docks after 911. From it's condition, I seriously doubt a previous owner looked for a near-matching number.
Click to expand...

That's pretty interesting...creepy, but interesting. Do you have any photos from the container days, or the condition at the tiime?
 
Tom from Drippin' said:
Tried twice. Can't upload photos.
Click to expand...

Please forgive me if this is too simplistic...I'm just not sure how many photos you have uploaded before...
After you select the photos, don't forget to press the 'Upload' button along the right side of the page. Then close the window after the upload is complete.

Again, my apologies if you already know this process. It could also be a system failure for all I know :confused:
 
1930-Pickup said:
Please forgive me if this is too simplistic...I'm just not sure how many photos you have uploaded before...
After you select the photos, don't forget to press the 'Upload' button along the right side of the page. Then close the window after the upload is complete.

Again, my apologies if you already know this process. It could also be a system failure for all I know :confused:
Click to expand...

Tried that 3 times now. clicked "upload" and nothing happens.
 
I suspect engines were changed frequently back in the day. Only about a year ago, I went looking for a replacement block and was offered one numbered only 201 from the one in my car. I wouldn't read too much into the closeness of the numbers.
 
Hey Tom- I see you're from Dripping Springs. My son moved to Flower Mound only three months ago and he loves it there. Now my wife is thinking along the same lines! The only problem is that he rarely sends any photos...it seems to be a typical problem for that part of Texas I guess. :D
 
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