Engine Question

TedG

TedG

Member
Working on a '29 A, the engine was supposedly rebuilt some time ago (don't know when) and then the car sat for a while (don't know how long).

It did not have any oil in the pan so I added 5 qts. through the distributor hole.

Tried to turn it over with the crank and it would not budge, put a lot of PB Blaster in the cylinders and let it sit overnight, in the AM it still wouldn't budge so I put a pry bar in the frame horn and across the crank handle, applied some pressure and it turned.

I put some oil in the cylinders and cranked it around several times by hand and it seemed to loosen up some but if I let it sit (even for just an hour or so) it tightens up and I have to use the pry bar again.

Once I get it to turn with the bar and then a few revolutions with the crank it will turn over using the starter.

Any ideas?
 
I would be concerned about the condition of the cylinder walls and possible corrosion of the crankshaft journals. While some rebuilders set the crank journal clearances closer than I prefer which make it difficult to turn over a restored engine, I would still be concerned about the fact that the engine has been sitting for an unknown time. If it was my engine, I would remove at least the pan for inspection. Gar Williams
 
Ted, Keep workin it, it will get better. Also Areo- is right about lookin in the pan plus I would add to pull the valve cover as it is a place where crud will hide waiting for the chance to plug an oil port. Monte
 
The valves and lifters are often one of the first places to rust especially if not coated with a good layer of sludge. I've seen engines that turned over only after enough teeth were broken off the timing gear to eliminate that restriction. Be sure and pull the cover and make sure the valve train is free.
 
TedG said:
Working on a '29 A, the engine was supposedly rebuilt some time ago (don't know when) and then the car sat for a while (don't know how long).

It did not have any oil in the pan so I added 5 qts. through the distributor hole.

Tried to turn it over with the crank and it would not budge, put a lot of PB Blaster in the cylinders and let it sit overnight, in the AM it still wouldn't budge so I put a pry bar in the frame horn and across the crank handle, applied some pressure and it turned.

I put some oil in the cylinders and cranked it around several times by hand and it seemed to loosen up some but if I let it sit (even for just an hour or so) it tightens up and I have to use the pry bar again.

Once I get it to turn with the bar and then a few revolutions with the crank it will turn over using the starter.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

My friend's rebuilt engine acts the same way. very stiff after it sets for a half hour or so, but once you put a pry bar on the ring gear you can then keep it turning over with a breaker bar on the front pulley bolt. It was this way the day we brought it home from the rebuilder. In a week or two we are going to start it for the first time since the rebuild. I'll let the engine come to temp (about 15 minutes) while I listen for any strange noises, then let it cool. Check the head torque and repeat this cycle a coupe more times, adding a few minutes run time with each cycle, until I feel the engine is loosened up enough to go for a slow run down the road.
 
Thanks for the input guys.

If what I was told is true I know the person that did the rebuild and he's been at it for at least 35 yrs. that I'm aware of, I've seen him do some assembly and the quality of his work is pretty high.

Using an LED penlite small enough to fit through the plug hole I looked in the cylinders and didn't see any signs of rust, of course that doesn't mean there wasn't any were the rings meet the wall.

I will pull the cover and check the valve train.

If the journals were coated with assembly lube would there still be a chance they could have corrosion on them?

The fact that it tightens up after being freed is what has me confused, what would cause that?
 
So, are you saying that this engine has not been run since the rebuild?? If so, I'd add a little more oil to the cylinders and let it sit for a bit, pump the out[turn over engine] and then run it..
 
The fact that it tightens up after being freed is what has me confused, what would cause that?[/QUOTE]

Good question....I'd like to know the answer also.
I see this happen with most babbitt rebuilds and more often when using an assembly grease like Lubriplate 105 (white assembly lube). The amount of force to break the crank loose after being static for awhile requires quite a bit of leverage. After breaking it loose, it takes a fraction of the break-loose force to keep it moving. I don't consider this condition unusual but normal based on what I have encountered over the years. From my experience the condition is lessened considerably when using a liquid assembly lube like Clevite 77 (heavy/sticky oil).

Anybody have a good technical answer to the question? Thanks!
Good Day!
Dave in MN
 
I freed mine up with some MMO. ditto this . i have used it for many things . it is good stuff . if you start the motor with MMO in it , dont run it to long as the MMO thins the oil out alot . i would definately poor some in the plug holes ........ steve
 
Patrick L. said:
So, are you saying that this engine has not been run since the rebuild?? If so, I'd add a little more oil to the cylinders and let it sit for a bit, pump the out[turn over engine] and then run it..
Click to expand...

Exactly, the engine has not been run since the rebuild.

I really don't think the problem is in the cylinders because they looked clean from the beginning.

The Lubriplate explanation seems plausible, I think I'll check with the shop I was told did the rebuild and see what they have to say.
 
OK, so are you getting ready to start this monster or are going to store it awhile longer?? If you're going to start it, I think you're ready to go.. You did the right thing with the oil.. I'd add a little oil to the cylinders and fire it up.. If you're going to let it sit, I'd add a little more oil to the cylinders and put it away.. I'm kind of a fan of keeping the cylinders wet..
 
Getting ready to start it, hopefully in the next day or so.

The body is at the painter's so I'm doing all the mechanical stuff, rebuilt the water pump yesterday and mounted the generator, I still have to rig a temporary gas tank and hook up the ignition.

This is the first A I've worked on and it's a real learning experience, the information on this site has been invaluable.
 
forever4 said:
My experience with the Lubriplate 'assembly lube' is that it solidifies like glue over time.
It should be called assembly glue!
I used to use it to coat a layer on crankshafts in storage also, but it becomes very difficult to remove later.
I will never use Lubriplate again.
Click to expand...

I've had some of the same experience and have switched to Mystik JT-6 High Temp grease for everything that needs grease or a coating for assembly or storage. So far I've not seen any thickening or drying during storage.
 
Went down to the garage yesterday morning, stuck the crank in the pulley and it turned right over, first time I didn't have to break it loose first.

Does the oil pump spin fast enough when cranking with the electric starter to circulate oil through the system?
 
forever4 said:
My experience with the Lubriplate 'assembly lube' is that it solidifies like glue over time.
It should be called assembly glue!
I used to use it to coat a layer on crankshafts in storage also, but it becomes very difficult to remove later.
I will never use Lubriplate again.
Click to expand...


I had the same experience with Lubri-plate. I now use Federal Mogul assembly lube. It is thick, sticky oil with a consistency like STP but with excellent lubricant properties and doesn't dry into a paste or rock. I have found motors with new bearings that were put up with Lubri-plate that the grease had hardened in the main down tubes and blocked any oil from getting to the mains, sure death.
 
TedG said:
Went down to the garage yesterday morning, stuck the crank in the pulley and it turned right over, first time I didn't have to break it loose first.

Does the oil pump spin fast enough when cranking with the electric starter to circulate oil through the system?
Click to expand...


I find many times when one or more of the bearings are put up a little on the tight side the motor will stick after sitting for a while many times just minutes. These engines run great after a few minutes of run time and are not a problem to fire after this.

By putting all the oil into the distributor hole you have lubed the mains as good as if the motor had been run. The pump will pump plenty of oil into the valve chamber in just a few seconds. The pump is designed to pump about a gallon per minute of oil, that's a lot. The only limit to lubrication is if the oil tubes are obstructed by any kind of dried up grease from assembly or rust. The only way to find out if the tubes are clear is to remove the crank and I don't see that being in your plan right now.
 
Started the engine today and it fired right up and sounded okay, no strange noises.

This car belongs to a friend who asked me to do the work that he is not capable of doing himself, he was so anxious to hear it run he insisted we try and start it.

At times I feel he makes some bad decisions but as hard as I try sometimes I cannot convince him to do things differently, it is his car so ultimately he has the final say.

I really do appreciate all the input, it does help me understand why thing do what they do and as I stated it is a learning experience.
 
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