Engine ID

Ford USA did make trucks during the war but most were G series 6-cylinder powered types so they wouldn't have had the BB18 designation. I'd venture to guess that it would be a wartime serial number and likely on a 1942 contract. Many of these trucks became fire trucks & fuel tankers and were modified by companies such as Marmon Herrington for all wheel drive. There were also Sno-Go types for clearing snow from airport runways. Most all were under military contract after early 1942.

Ford Canada was also heavy into military manufacturing as early as late 1939 & early 1940. Canadian numbering was a lot different than USA numbering. Here is a detail link for Ford Canada numbers. http://www.wnyrg.org/canvins.html
Canadian Military Pattern trucks served all over the world.

Both left and right hand drive vehicles were also produced in the US for knock down cars to be shipped to non-commonwealth countries around the world and they follow the US linear numbering system.
 
i suspect number stamped next to manifold is ID No issued by australian state DMV as they required all engines to be identified [appears to be hand stamped as spacing uneven and is slightly misaligned] so this may actually be helpfull in tracking down when engine was first regestered in aus
 
Morning Gene and Dave,

Below is the stamping on the firewall of the truck,

20190103_092056.jpg


Gene please zsee below,


G32 said:
Corey;

My Opinion:

That's the original factory transmission. 1942 truck -- the Serial

numbered 221 "18" engine/trans didn't make the 2/10/42 cut off

for civilian sale in USA so it went to Canada. My opinion.

What SN is on the title?

No title mate, old truck i am restoring. Sitting on a farm for many years.


Does the truck have FMC (USA) manufacturer patent plate on

firewall or FMC of Canada patent plate?

No plates at all or where one could of been attached, let me know if there is a specific place it may have been.



Any evidence that truck was original left hand drive & converted right?


Cannot see anything, again is there a key telltale to look at to determine this?



Any military plates on dashboard or military features?

No nothing military i can see.



Fun -- thanks! Harry New Year!

Gene Tulsa Route 66
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies guys.

Cheers

Corey
 
Thanks for the replies guys as i really appreciate it, yes the stamping is a 21T.

pic3.jpg

It appears i have the round holes in the block

pic4.jpg

Head removed

Pic2.jpg

Also appears i have a broken valve

Pic1.jpg

Close up

If the T indicates a truck head, is there an issue as only one head has a T on it?

Guess i also need to work out how to rebuild the bottom end of a Flathead. Or find someone that will do it at a reasonable price! Any thoughts are welcomed.

UPDATE,

Appears i hadnt removed the gasket, haha.

20190103_182925.jpg


Cheers

Corey
 
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The only thing that I can add is it looks like 21T-81 is an Australian manufactured Closed Cab and the AM21T-81 appears to be the American Closed Cab. The 3190 is the production number. But I have no idea what the UGN stands for. Dave
 
Forgot to mention Albury Engine Reconditioning rebuilds the old flatheads. I was in there the other day and he has three V8's on the go and four Model A engines being rebuilt. Shane has rebuilt four engines for me. Dave
 
]Corey

Dave Slater said:
The only thing that I can add is it looks like 21T-81 is an Australian manufactured Closed Cab and the AM21T-81 appears to be the American Closed Cab. The 3190 is the production number. But I have no idea what the UGN stands for. Dave
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Thanks Dave,

Appreciate the help.

Cheers

Corey
 
Dave Slater said:
Forgot to mention Albury Engine Reconditioning rebuilds the old flatheads. I was in there the other day and he has three V8's on the go and four Model A engines being rebuilt. Shane has rebuilt four engines for me. Dave
Click to expand...

Dave do you know what approximately a standard rebuild is worth? Going in a trick so don't need any performance work done. It will give me a guide as to getting someone to rebuild it vs having a go myself.

Cheers

Corey
 
Could this be a mecury engine as it has the upside down keystone at the bottom and a circular hole in the middle?

Cheers

Corey
 
The C59A casting mark on the block indicates it is an immediate post war Canadian Ford & Mercury engine (239 CID). The C69A replaced it after a year or so of post war production.


Ford Canada made their own engines so there may be some differences from Ford USA production. I'm still learning about Canadian production so I don't know if they made any 221 replacement engines like Ford USA did after the war.
 
Corey and others;

rotorwrench said:
The C59A casting mark on the block indicates it is an immediate post war Canadian Ford & Mercury engine (239 CID).
I'm still learning about Canadian production so I don't know if they made any 221 replacement engines like Ford USA did after the war.
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Dave Slater said:
According to the Ford Australia engine serial number records 6D............F is a Model 51A - 59A. Engine type 59T-6011-S. 1946 to 1947 V8 Canadian truck engine. Dave
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FMC Canada "Fast Moving Parts Catalogue" shows Trucks 21T 221ci (18)
and 29T 239ci (99- had to be - 59s are 1945) engines 1943-1944.
FMPC is like USA Green Book
Also in 1945 21T & 29T TRUCKS. Question is are the 21T 221ci engines
in cast marked C-59- A blocks ? See Ausie Model above 51A-59A.
Same thing USA did 221ci 41A block in 59 cast marked block.

Corey please check your block for 3 3/16 bore or more.

Also check rods 221 91 or 21 rod cap # (2" rod crank journal)
239 has 2.139 " rod journals rod cap 99 or 29 #.

Like others i'm try learn more .
Hope not confusing!

Old Fords! Gene Tulsa
 
Hi guys,

Sorry for the late reply, been busy with work,

Ok,

-Boresize 3 3/16
-Stroke 3.75
- Bottom of block beside middle bearing there is an M stamped
-cap centre main 7RA-6330-B ( i think its a B or E?) Below is a 10
-rod 88A 6205A 553 opp side -OS 5 GL 8 ( i think)
-rod cap- UA C8BA ( think it is a C in front of the B )

So i think its a 239 engine, thoughts?

Also where would i find info on measurements on the engine e.g journals etc so i can measure to see if they are in spec? So i know if i am able to order bearings etc

Cheers

Corey
 
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The part numbers seem to indicate a change from the C59A crankshaft rotating components to 8BA rotating components. The crankshaft would also have to be 8BA to work with insert rod bearings but they can be installed in the earlier motors. The old floating bearings were likely ditched somewhere in the past for the easier to work with 8BA stuff. 7RA number prefixes indicate some of the early 1948 8BA items and it is a truck part number indication. Later F series truck indicators designed in 1948 had the 8RT number prefix. 1948 was the intro year for the F series trucks and a lot of the parts were designed in 1947. FoMoCo wanted to intro the 1949 cars in 1948 as well but they were too far behind the implementation power curve so they just introduced the F series trucks that year with the cars to follow for the next model year.
 
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as far as only one head being truck i think the truck heads have lower compression than car ones. best to use matched heads. Mark
 
marko39 said:
as far as only one head being truck i think the truck heads have lower compression than car ones. best to use matched heads. Mark
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Corey; Guys

Both heads are cast code part# C-81-T - the same- Truck.

The 6050 head is actually the left side head -- the "RH" is right side

and usually marked 6049 (on prewar engines USA). There might a

cast Part# over the top on the back of head .

My rod cap #s were USA 221 & 239.

Good upgrades on your engine.

Good thread---- good pictures!

Thanks Corey and all!

Gene Tulsa Oklahoma
 
Thanks guys,

The M stamped in the bottom of the block, do you think this stiffed for Mecury?
20190110_144458.jpg

M stamped on the bottom of the block

20190110_200236-0.jpg

Numbers on rod

Any ideas on where to find engine specs guys?

Cheers

Corey
 
If its has C8BA rods then it should have a C8BA crankshaft. Your sizes for the rotating assembly will be for the 8BA family of engines.


The C8BA is pretty much the same as USA 8BA and was manufactured right across the river from Detroit in Windsor Ontario. The C69A was the first one to use the insert type rods but the replacement main bearing shells are very hard to source now. I'm not sure about the rod bearings on it. The 8BA family of engines from 1948 thru 1953 (1954 in Canada) all used the same main & rod bearings. The older C59A engine was a floater bearing engine so a rebuilder likely changed it over due to a bad rotating assembly. Ford & Mercury engines were all the same cubic inch displacement after the war at 239 CID. The 255 didn't come out till 1949 with the mid century Mercury cars.


The prewar Mercury engine starting in 1939 was the first of the 239 engines (99A). These had thick cylinder walls initially but around 1941 the iron quantity had to be reduced for the war effort so the later prewar and war time 239 engines were likely similar in thickness to what came after the war with the 59 series of engines. That M would likely mean "modified" if it was stamped in during an overhaul. Most of the US stampings on US built engines are on the intake deck area and few have deciphered all of what they stand for. Most were likely inspector stamps. Making the Mercury identification in the post war years is doubtful at best. They were all the same in the years that they were manufactured after the war until 1949. Canadian Mercury pickups & trucks in the 8BA era came with a 239 CID engine unless there was a special order for a 255. Only the Monarch cars came with the 255 as standard.
 
Thanks rotorwrench,

I will see if i can find the 8BA specs to see if its within tolerence or if i need to bore it or a bone will do. Pistons look ok so as long as the bore is ok would there be any reason not to use the pistons?

If anyone had any good advice on when you rebuild one of these engines, with what not to do vs what would be good to do while is apart, Please feel free to advise as i have not rebuilt a flathead before and do not know all the is and outs.

Cheers

Corey
 
As far as the block is concerned, ie. valve train, cam, & cylinder bores, it depends on what the bores are now and whether this is a 239 block or not. I mentioned previously about not knowing about the 221 replacement engines if any were made in Canada after the war and what the characteristics are if so. Ford US manufactured 59 series blocks also came in the 221 CID configuration as a 41A designated block with the big 59 raised casting mark on the back bell. They had characteristics of the prewar 221 blocks and had thin cylinder walls. If Canada did this then your block may have limitations.


The first thing I would do is strip the block and carefully inspect it for cracks around the pan rails and exhaust valve pockets. You can usually see them with the naked eye. If no cracks are found visually then the block needs to be cleaned & tested. A machine shop can sonic test the cylinder walls for thickness and should be able to pressure test it. Magna flux inspection will only detect cracks where you can see them. A pressure test will find cracks you can't see. I wouldn't spend another penny on a block that doesn't pass the test unless it can be easily pinned to repair cracks or the like. A sonic test will let a machinist know how far it can be safely bored out. A 239 can be bored a long way but a 221 can not.


I wouldn't reuse pistons unless they had very little wear and the cylinder the same. If the clearance is too great then it needs to be bored for new pistons.
 
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