engine dating

O

odduck

New member
I have 1940 ford, would like to know if it has the engine it came from the factory.Heads have the letter A ,it also has the post war crab distributor.I am new to this so i have a feeling this question has been asked before ,is worth changing to a 12 volt system,buying radial tires on this stock 40
 
There is a lot more to it than just the heads - though that is a good start. It is impossible to know if the engine is the original one, a replacement with another exactly correct year (with all the right external parts) - or some other hybrid variant. Can you post some detailed pictures of the engine - the parts on it, the front of the engine block (just above the timing cover) and the side of the block - down where the oil pan meets the block. There are subtle things that can help us identify what we 'believe' it to be, but nobody can be 100% sure (engines are not stamped like the frames are).

There is absolutely no problem running a 6 volt system -- if the wiring is of the right gauge, all the contact surfaces are clean and you have a good charging system. My 1932 Ford is all original in this regard (but I do have a special 6V alternator conversion inside my generator). The reason I went with a high output charging system (40 amps) is because I'm running 30W Halogen bulbs in my original headlights. If you have good 6V sealed beam lights - you should be just fine in your situation (with a good stock output generator).

Tires: There are plenty of "traditional" or "stock only" fanatics - who refuse to run anything other than bias ply tires. It is a personal choice and may be influenced on where you drive the car, how often, at what speed, etc.. If you're driving on grooved pavement (like certain freeways and interstates), then you'll find that radial tires will track a not nicer and have much better steering/ride qualities. With that said - plenty of guys won't run them . . . their choice.

Good luck and post a lot of pictures for us to see.

D
 
It can be difficult to tell (Sometimes) if it is "THE EXACT" engine that it left the factory with unless you know the history, have paperwork, take into consideration the mileage (if it is original mileage car) and look for signs of either replacement OR original dirt, grime, rust, etc etc etc as the engines were not numbered. I'm not a 40 expert but believe you should have a 59A engine?? others will chime in here BUT if it is indeed a 59A then at least you have the correct era flathead in the correct year car (which is a plus if you are looking for originality and 1/2 the battle of determining if it is the original engine). As for 12V conversion...its your call, IF your 6V system is maintained properly THEN you should have NO problems and should preform just as it did back in the 40's.....Although the convenience, quality/availability of ignition parts (good 6V points & condensers especially) and switching to a negative ground is a plus to a lot of people...SO your call!!! As for radials, again your call, they certainly ride better and you'll have to determine how important and how much you will drive your car and how important "Originality" is to you!!!!
 
It should not be a 59A engine - more along the line of a 221 cubic inch 81A type engine. There should be no 59x markings on the bell-housing. If it has those, then it was replaced at some time in it's life.
 
You can go by characteristics only to see if it is in the "correct" range for 1940. Big A heads would be correct. The late 38 thru 40 had core plugs in the pan rail flange and these are indicated by two bulges in the side of the block for each side. No "59" raised letters on the top center of the rear bell would be consistent with the times but is not an absolute since some 59 series engines were missing these.

This is the Barn's ID thread. http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25301&showall=1
 
I would say yes to radials, but needing 12V no, i have used 35watt halogens on the A with the original generator, your gen makes over twice the amps, i would use 50watt halogens---they do have 6V halogen seal beams, not that easy to fing, but also there are seal beam size lens reflector units that take H4 bulbs that can be had in many wattages and voltages

your 40 should have a 35amp generator, probably a alternator rated at 40amp cold makes 35 or less hot, generator should be regulated to 35 amp hot
 
Engine block: As others have stated, it is nearly impossible to determine whether or not your block is original to your car. It is very possible however, to determine if it is a correct '40 block.
The area just above the timing cover has what many refer to as a ledge. Later blocks do not have this feature.
Also, as mentioned previously, there should be "bumps" along the block at the oil pan. These "bumps" are indicative of core plugs.
The deck that mates the valve chamber cover (intake) is flat on a correct '40 block. The so called "raised deck" blocks were not cast until August, 1940 - too late for inclusion to a factory assembled 1940 Ford.
The area adjacent to where the exhaust manifolds fasten protrude about 3/16" from the main block casting on a '40.
6v. vs. 12v.: I have never seen a viable reason to convert to 12 volts. With the proper wiring, good grounds, a properly functioning charging system, 12 volts is simply unnecessary.
Radial tires: Yes, radials will provide a better ride on certain roadways IF and only IF your suspension is in good condition. That includes shocks, springs, etc. radials WILL amplify any deficiencies in the chassis. My advice? Be certain the chassis is great mechanical condition and enjoy your '40 for what it was meant to be.
 
AS for being the original engine that came from the factory in the car, that's pretty slim, unless it is a super low mileage car. These engines were really only good for about 50,000 miles, then a rebuilt assy was the norm. Ford had a lot of advertising for rebuilt Ford engines after the war when rationing was dropped and people started using their cars a lot. Oils were not what they are today, so lubrication didn't have the additives to make things last. There was a lot of things working against you back then.
More than likely, it is a "correct" engine, but being the original one, is doubtful.
 
That was the average life span back then. With the oils we have now, you'll get a lot more. We don't drive the old cars like they did then. Oils today are synthetic for the most part, have many additives and last longer. Machining practices and better materials help todays engine get to an average of 300,000 easily. I remember in the 70's the life expectancy was only 100,000 miles. Oils back then had almost nothing added to them to keep the dirt trapped. Look at the sludge you find in some of these old flatheads when you tear them down. I've had my share.
 
Life span took a big leap when the fuel injection systems started to become common place and the reliability level was backed by government mandate. The old carburetors were just not that efficient. Too much or too little fuel in the mixture was hard on the old engines.

Lubricants are better too but add that to computer controlled fuel delivery and you have engines going way over the 100K mile level.
 
Overdrive helps as well. Todays engines operate a much lower rpm than they did back in the day.
 
Thanks to all for the great info,talked to an old Ford man in his eighty's yesterday he said pretty much the same thing about the motors wearing out by 40 thousand miles.
 
odduck said:
Thanks to all for the great info,talked to an old Ford man in his eighty's yesterday he said pretty much the same thing about the motors wearing out by 40 thousand miles.
Click to expand...

My 39's engine over the past 32 years has 130,000 miles runs and sounds
like new, don't burn any oil between changes and has no leaks other than
the normal drop on the fly wheel cotter pin. I have used Castrol 20/50
since startup on a NOS Ford engine purchased from Dennis Carpenter. At
about 85,000 miles while changing the oil I stuck my finger up in the drain
hole to feel if there was any crud in the bottom of the pan. I felt the large
round oil pick up move, felt again and it dropped loose. I knew it wasn't a
a problem before, on the way on to the lift I looked at the oil pressure and
it was around 45. I pulled the pan and found the pipe from the pickup up
to the pump came loose. The brazed joint let loose. Re brazed it. In looking
at the bottom end and the pan there was absolutely no cruddy oil scum at
all. There was a little area 3 or 4 inches in diameter at the low spot near
the drain hole of hard dry sandy type material that I scraped out. I figure
this was casting sand from the new engine. When this engine was new it
ran up in the 200 degree range, the oil got black in a few miles and used
a little between changes. After putting on Skips pumps with the turbine impellers and removing the overflow tube from the top of the radiator and installing a 4 lb pressure cap the engine was running below 160. I added
Bob Shewmans 180 degree stats and it runs at 178 to 182 in 95 degree
plus temperatures. Also when I put the engine in I moved the oil return
from the oil filter to the pan just above the dip stick and opened the
intake and return holes in the stand pipe in the filter about .150, I don't remember the exact size. It didn't effect the oil pressure it still has 45 at driving speed after warmup. I do have a Columbia rear that is a 28.5% overdrive that acts like it's a 4th gear so the engine is never screaming.
I drive at 65 to 75 on the interstate for 8 or 10 hour days. Also another benefit of a cooler engine it's cooler in the cab with a cooler floor, firewall and the cooler air across the top of the hood blowing cooler air in the cowl vent at driving speeds. Also with the pressure cap I fill the radiator up to
the filler neck, it stays there for over year. The 4 large radiator hoses expand enough to take up the small amount of water expansion that
occurs below 200 degrees. If I recall this engine cost was $350.00 at that time. It was shipped with some brand new truck heads just for shipping purposes. I ground the truck numbers off and just left the "A" on and have no idea of the compression ratio. People who ride with me don't believe
this is a stock engine. I keep it tuned perfect with a distributor set up to original Ford specs by Skip on a Ford~Heyer distributor strobe machine. Once set up right it stays good for years. G.M.
 
People today tend to take care of their cars, be it old or new, much better. oils are light years ahead of what they had when these cars were new. In the depression, money was scarce, so cars suffered from the lack of maintenance. Like anything else, you take care of it, it will last a long time.
 
I have a 41 v8 and will be calling Skip tomorrow to get some water pumps I have been fighting a heating issue forever. Just had the radiator boiled out and fiqured might just as well bite the bullet and pull the pumps
 
G.M. said:
My 39's engine over the past 32 years has 130,000 miles runs and sounds
like new, don't burn any oil between changes and has no leaks other than
the normal drop on the fly wheel cotter pin. I have used Castrol 20/50
since startup on a NOS Ford engine purchased from Dennis Carpenter. At
about 85,000 miles while changing the oil I stuck my finger up in the drain
hole to feel if there was any crud in the bottom of the pan. I felt the large
round oil pick up move, felt again and it dropped loose. I knew it wasn't a
a problem before, on the way on to the lift I looked at the oil pressure and
it was around 45. I pulled the pan and found the pipe from the pickup up
to the pump came loose. The brazed joint let loose. Re brazed it. In looking
at the bottom end and the pan there was absolutely no cruddy oil scum at
all. There was a little area 3 or 4 inches in diameter at the low spot near
the drain hole of hard dry sandy type material that I scraped out. I figure
this was casting sand from the new engine. When this engine was new it
ran up in the 200 degree range, the oil got black in a few miles and used
a little between changes. After putting on Skips pumps with the turbine impellers and removing the overflow tube from the top of the radiator and installing a 4 lb pressure cap the engine was running below 160. I added
Bob Shewmans 180 degree stats and it runs at 178 to 182 in 95 degree
plus temperatures. Also when I put the engine in I moved the oil return
from the oil filter to the pan just above the dip stick and opened the
intake and return holes in the stand pipe in the filter about .150, I don't remember the exact size. It didn't effect the oil pressure it still has 45 at driving speed after warmup. I do have a Columbia rear that is a 28.5% overdrive that acts like it's a 4th gear so the engine is never screaming.
I drive at 65 to 75 on the interstate for 8 or 10 hour days. Also another benefit of a cooler engine it's cooler in the cab with a cooler floor, firewall and the cooler air across the top of the hood blowing cooler air in the cowl vent at driving speeds. Also with the pressure cap I fill the radiator up to
the filler neck, it stays there for over year. The 4 large radiator hoses expand enough to take up the small amount of water expansion that
occurs below 200 degrees. If I recall this engine cost was $350.00 at that time. It was shipped with some brand new truck heads just for shipping purposes. I ground the truck numbers off and just left the "A" on and have no idea of the compression ratio. People who ride with me don't believe
this is a stock engine. I keep it tuned perfect with a distributor set up to original Ford specs by Skip on a Ford~Heyer distributor strobe machine. Once set up right it stays good for years. G.M.
Click to expand...

This is a very impressive post GM. I would suspect many factors combined for you to have obtained these numbers. Three cheers to modern oil, Skips pumps and excellent maintenance by someone who knows and loves his vehicle!
 
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