Engine Block Crack repair

Mikeinnj

Well-known member
I had a local machinist bake and magna-flux my block prior to boring it and installing hardened valve seats. He called today and said he found three cracks. He said he can "stitch" weld and pin them and has done so on many engines and never had a problem but asked if I would prefer taking the block to a known Model A engine re-builder who "heats the block" before welding it as some of his customers prefer to have done. I am at a loss as to what to do.... can anyone give good advice regarding crack repair on this engine.
 
If his professional opinion is it can be "stitched" I would go for that. Where are the cracks? and, to what extent?
 
Either method will work....I have "stitched" a one foot square patch in the side of Cat D9 block and when done you could not tell it had been done from the outside.
On the other hand if you have it furnace/torch welded you will have to re-machine EVERY machined surface on the block to remove scale and that includes boring the lifter holes and making new oversize lifters. I have done it many times but it is expensive. Metalurgically it is the best method though.
 
If I was going to rebuild an engine, which means a 3 to 4 thousand dollar investment, I, myself, wouldn't want to start with a block that has cracks and especially if the cracks involve the bore or valve cambers. I suggest you find a good block with no cracks anywhere. This is just my opinion.

Ron
 
I had a local machinist bake and magna-flux my block prior to boring it and installing hardened valve seats. He called today and said he found three cracks. He said he can "stitch" weld and pin them and has done so on many engines and never had a problem but asked if I would prefer taking the block to a known Model A engine re-builder who "heats the block" before welding it as some of his customers prefer to have done. I am at a loss as to what to do.... can anyone give good advice regarding crack repair on this engine.

Mike, It is imperative that the massive chunk of cast Iron (engine Block) be preheated to do any successful welding on it! Furthermore, I would want the block heated for several hours beforehand to purge eighty years of carbon that has accumulated in the metal. I once welded an exhaust manifold of a Ford V8 that was very caburized and it was like trying to weld an icicle to a hot frying pan. The metal just would not stick and it ran off in little balls. You can't get a good weld when the metal is half carbon. A friend once successfully welded a head off a caterpillar by heating it to 1200 F in an oven for a few hours. Then he proceeded to weld it with 6010 wire. He welded it right out of the oven without cooling it. Sounds crazy, I know! But 6010 has a violent arc that "washes" the weld. 6010 is what most pipe welders use on pipelines. The arc boils the deposits out of the weld. So it can be done, but.......
Terry
 
A prof in college told us about farmers building a fire under their tractor block to preheat it for welding. My impression as a callow youth then was that the block was in the chassis, but now I have my doubts. For welding 2-1/4 Cr 1 Mo 2" wall pipe in 3500psi, 1005F steam lines, it is preheated, welded hot and post weld heat treated, so not so crazy.
 
Chris in CT, Who did your stitching? The LNS website does not indicate where you can get the work done. Bill G

Hi Bill, I had my block done at J&M Machine in Southboro, MA, but they sent the block out for the metal stitch. I think it went to Frank Casey (see Smitty, above) in MA, but I'm not sure. You definately want someone who is experienced at it though. Good Luck.
 
Frank Casey does their blocks, he is very good. He also pressure tests the block when finished to make sure there are no leaks.
You will not even see the repair when he is finished.
 
Thanks everyone for the valuable info. I will be going over to the shop to see the block on monday and will follow up with future progress on this problem.
 
Mike,

I halfway know a little something about cast iron ....

If you were dealing with a more solid part, like a big solid flywheel, or just anything that did not have so many intersections of thick and thin and critical mating surfaces and alignment (like an engine block for example) the preheating, welding and controlled cooling necessary for a good weld can be accomplished without much worry as to how the part will function in use later. Moreover, the type of preheat and welding I'm referring to is to heat the entire casting to a RED-HOT condition and weld with a cast-iron electrode. This method produces a weld which is as close as possible to the characteristics of the original cast metal.

Now on a part like an engine block for example with so many intersections of thick and thin iron, the expansion and contraction of these areas when preheated red-hot and cooled will not be exactly the same no matter how they do it; with the thin areas heating and cooling faster and expanding and contracting in conflict with the thick areas. The end result is critical mating areas, machined surfaces, etc. can warp out of alignment.

Now as Pete said above, ALL these areas would have to be re-machined and in my opinion, you'd be damn lucky if every surface and alignment came out correctly as original.

Even if the expert doing the work said everything was correct, from that point forward if you ever had a problem with bearings going out prematurely, premature odd wear on parts, binding, etc., etc., you'd cuss that block forever!

Larry B.

P.S. If the cracks are just in the water jacket and in an area that will not be subject to a lot of load or shock, rods with a nickel base can be used to make welds without all the preheat mentioned above. BUT ...... the casting must be clean, i.e., no oil or contaminants, NOTHING, along with the crack beveled out and the weld made in a downhand position. Now this method is not perfect and can still crack but it often works well and holds up.
 
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