Emphasis on Hot Rod

serocontra

serocontra

Member
Summary: red metals normal and did a knock back ruin my engine?

First time attempting to drive my car.
I’m guessing it’s not supposed to look like this?
There’s water/ coolant in the tank. I’ll probably be getting a thermometer in the distant future as funds are tapped between housing issues and life.

A worrying note: I turned it off in a panic when I saw how hot it was and don’t think I did the right thing. Instead of shutting off the gas tank and letting engine die, I turned it off by key.
Now it won’t start again. There was a knock back. Did I ruin the engine?
It sounded fine while it ran, ran well too. I turned it off because I was worried about the cherry red muffler.
 

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You are running it with the spark retarded.It is firing with the exhaust valve still open,and the fire is going down the exhaust.Read the book on how to time it,and how to run the spark lever while driving.It's not the first Model A to be run with the spark retarded and turning the muffler almost white hot.Until you find out which ones are OK to watch,stay away from youtube.Read a book.
 
The choke rod doubles as a gas adjustment valve when rotated. If it run too lean, it will run hot. The spark lever that controls ignition timing for load control can also be a factor if not properly adjusted.
 
Keith True said:
You are running it with the spark retarded.It is firing with the exhaust valve still open,and the fire is going down the exhaust.Read the book on how to time it,and how to run the spark lever while driving.It's not the first Model A to be run with the spark retarded and turning the muffler almost white hot.Until you find out which ones are OK to watch,stay away from youtube.Read a book.
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Thanks for the help.
I timed the engine based on a book and tech updates months later from ford.
I never got it driving. Seeing the red hot muffler spooked me that I was ruining the car. And yea, I did keep the spark retarded. Not gonna lie-I don’t understand the spark retardation. Does it lower the power of the spark or the speed of the distributor?
 
rotorwrench said:
The choke rod doubles as a gas adjustment valve when rotated. If it run too lean, it will run hot. The spark lever that controls ignition timing for load control can also be a factor if not properly adjusted.
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I did a deep clean of the carb a couple of days ago. Set the gas valve all the way in AFTER screwing in the choke. Maybe I ran it too lean. I followed the directions here https://modela.org/starting.html
If you mean the spark lever I haven’t touched it but I did adjust timing. Hopefully I did it right. The engine sounded good. If this site accepts video I can upload that.
 
I highly advise to get some help from a member of your local Model A club.

The fuel/air mixture takes some time to burn after the spark plug ignites it. It does not explode instantaneously. The ignition has to be advanced so that the fuel/air has time to burn. Otherwise it is still burning when the exhaust valve opens and is still burning in the exhaust pipe, causing the exhaust to get red hot.

On a modern engine this is all controlled by the engine management computer, but on a Model A it is controlled by the operator. The same is true with the air/fuel ratio which is controlled by the GAV (Gas Adjustment Valve) by turning the choke rod.

It is unlikely that a knock can be caused by running the ignition retarded. However it can be caused by running the ignition too early. To adjust the ignition timing, advance (lower the timing lever) one notch at a time until the engine does not run faster and back it off one notch. This is usually done at a fast idle or while driving at a constant throttle position by using the hand throttle.

A knock can come from different sources. If you can publish a video of the knock and provide a link to the video this can be helpful for the Barn members to comment. Does it happen at an idle, under load, all the time, what? Is it coming from the front of the engine or more towards the center?

You may have burned the exhaust valves, which would cause a loss of compression, in turn causing the engine to not start. Check the compression by turning the engine over with the hand crank. If you cannot feel any resistance due to compression, you have none.
 
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Here's the videos my sister took.
Starting
Idling
I know theres a gasket and exhaust manifold problem. It came pre-stripped and the exhaust gasket i just got from Mikes blew within the first few seconds.

I'm going to be talking to a gentleman later today about starting a Model A.
 
You have some big exhaust leaks there.Pull the manifolds,and hold a straight edge to the machined surface.Intake and exhaust should be perfectly level with each other,close is not good enough.Also,hold the straight edge on the bottom of the front port,and the bottom of the rearmost port.All those holes need to be in a perfect line.You may find the rear one drooped,common,from overheating the exhaust for whatever reason.
 
An exhaust manifold leak can sound like an engine knock. Hopefully that is all the knock is.

When bolted together the exhaust and intake manifold should have a flat surface that is co planer. If you lay it on a flat surface, such as the kitchen counter, you should not be able to see an gaps. A machine shop can machine it flat but make sure they do it with the two bolted together.

The copper clad manifold gaskets are best, see https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/product.htm?pid=984052&cat=41733. The paper gaskets will blow out quickly.
 
The OP can likely find a copy of the old Model A Instruction Book on line somewhere in PDF format. Instructions for use of the manual spark control are in there and relatively simple. In 1932, Ford went to more automatic advance features to handle spark control.

Manual control starts with retarding to prevent kick back on start up then advancing the spark after it's running. Load control when hauling heavier loads or driving up hills is important as well but really doesn't take a lot of movement of the lever to affect the most efficient load control. It's all in the instruction book as well as GAV adjustment for proper fuel mixture. Everything was manual from the horseless carriage days up through the model T and A cars. The model B and V8 years that followed were less so.
 
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After an hour and a half of 1crosscut's time on Saturday I've hopefully solved most issues.

Probably the biggest was my timing was positioned backwards. whoops.
I'm just going to buy a new exhaust manifold and pray i dont need a new intake manifold.
the current one i have i dont think will be able to be fixed. a hole that would hold the intake to the exhause manifold has a hole in it (i believe) from being stripped when my car was restored 30 years ago.
plus there are a few chips in various places. you can see from videos in my last post and it's not pretty.

So thank you all, especially 1crosscut, for guiding me through this.
 
serocontra said:
After an hour and a half of 1crosscut's time on Saturday I've hopefully solved most issues.

Probably the biggest was my timing was positioned backwards. whoops.
I'm just going to buy a new exhaust manifold and pray i dont need a new intake manifold.
the current one i have i dont think will be able to be fixed. a hole that would hold the intake to the exhause manifold has a hole in it (i believe) from being stripped when my car was restored 30 years ago.
plus there are a few chips in various places. you can see from videos in my last post and it's not pretty.

So thank you all, especially 1crosscut, for guiding me through this.
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When you receive your new exhaust manifold match it up to your intake manifold. They MUST be flat.

If you continue to have issues, I recommend trying a RemFlex Gasket. http://catalog.remflex.com/FORD_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/3040.htm
 
mmm I'm guessing your in Port Orchard or Bremerton. There are several Model "A" guys near you. I'm in University Place so not too far from you. Let me know if I can be of assistance. TB
 
Y-Blockhead said:
When you receive your new exhaust manifold match it up to your intake manifold. They MUST be flat.

If you continue to have issues, I recommend trying a RemFlex Gasket. http://catalog.remflex.com/FORD_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/3040.htm
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I bought some feeler gauges to help measure everything.
if this next copper gasket i ordered blows (again) i will take up that suggestion, thanks.

nkaminar said:
A stripped hole can be fixed with a thread insert.
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i'm worried it may be warped too.
I put some high temp JB Weld that claimed to support 4100psi. Cured it per instructions, tapped it, affixed everything, waited two days for the red gasket maker to cure around the copper gasket, and still had failures.
 
The best way to assure that your manifolds do not leak is to have them machined by a machine shop. But there is a shade tree method that can be used: The method is to glue course emery paper to a flat surface, such as a granite block, and sand the surfaces of the manifolds when bolted together. It take a lot of time but can be done.
 
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