Electrics: Conversion to 12 Volts

Rusty Bumper

Junior Member
I'm pretty new here and I don't rightly know how to tell if this qualifies as a "New Thread". I can't even define "Thread". I had the same problem with a question about Mechanical Brakes. But, here this one is …

¿WHAT IS THE COMPELLING REASON FOR THE CONVERSION TO 12V VIA ALTERNATOR WITH NEGATIVE EARTH?

I'm sure this has been discussed to death and I'm sure there are chapters in the manuals with the "How To's" and I'm sure the contributors to this forum could make an impressive list of Pluses and Minuses. What escapes me so far is the "¿Why?".

Thanks for your consideration.
 
In my opinion, the only real compelling reason for switching the electrical system to 12 volts is for the easy use of modern 12 volts accessories. Outside of that, the next compelling reason is for an easier way to repair something that is faulty. In other words, "I converted my lighting system to 12 volts so I could see when driving at night."

Maybe another way to say that would be I converted my lighting system to 12 volts because I didn't want to change out my faulty wiring harness, --or I didn't want to go to the hassle of resilvering my reflectors, --or it was just easier and I really am not interested in preserving authenticity of my car. Naturally there will be other perspectives and opinions that will counter my thoughts (and that is OK), ...but my opinion is based on what I have heard from customers and hobbyist over the years. I actually know of several 6 volt systems with properly restored lighting and charging/starting systems that outperform 12 volt conversions. I guess it is all in what seems believable to a person.

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I think Brent has it right--it's mostly to make it easier to run modern accessories. There aren't a lot of 6v accessories out there and the ones I've seen marketed as specifically for Model A's seem to be ridiculously overpriced. I suspect that this is also a primary reason for switching from a generator to an alternator--people running four or five different accessories don't want their headlights to go out when they honk the horn :-)

One other point I have seen come up is that if you're touring and you have a breakdown and need electronics of some kind, you're not going to find 6v versions at Napa Auto Parts. Though I'm not sure if the smaller auto parts store would have even 12v points/coils, so it's probably better to just be prepared.
 
Brent's comments are right on but I would like to add a few comments of my own. The properly restored lighting system will produce adequate lighting for most uses. Go to a local Model A meeting and see what the lights look like. Just look at the bright ones since the others have probably taken short cuts that result dim lights. All it requires is that you pay attention to detail at each step. If you want really bright lights in my opinion you need 12 volts. I run the 12 volt "brite" bulbs from Ron Francis wire works, wire-works.com, (800) 292-1940 and I am very happy with them (they are not bluish like some, maybe all, halogen's). A lot of suppliers stock his product. Next I think there may have been a second question lurking. When you change to 12 volts you change to negative ground because it is less costly (a positive ground alternator is a custom unit, if you break down on the road you can't get one at the local auto parts store), easy and avoids a lot of problems (modern accessories not being compatible). Current automobiles are standardized at negative ground (24 volts is probably coming soon). Twelve volt positive cars do not exist in today's market. All modern accessories are standardized to the negative ground.

Charlie Stephens
 
Hi Rusty, What Brent, Dan and Charlie have said above is all perfectly true, but I would add this: There are basically three types of car out there in our Model A world. One is the authentic and unaltered car, two is the car which appears to be original, but has "hard to see" alterations that make is useful and safe as a "driver", and three - the car that has been substantially modified so that it can keep up with modern traffic conditions. Which category do you think you fall into? Its all a question of which you feel most comfortable with, and what you think will best serve your driving needs. A good question is that of seat belts - "Henry didn't need them!" Yeah, but do you really think you should do without them on your daily driver? You answer the question.... Happy Motoring.
 
I'm pretty new here and I don't rightly know how to tell if this qualifies as a "New Thread". I can't even define "Thread". I had the same problem with a question about Mechanical Brakes. But, here this one is …

¿WHAT IS THE COMPELLING REASON FOR THE CONVERSION TO 12V VIA ALTERNATOR WITH NEGATIVE EARTH?

I'm sure this has been discussed to death and I'm sure there are chapters in the manuals with the "How To's" and I'm sure the contributors to this forum could make an impressive list of Pluses and Minuses. What escapes me so far is the "¿Why?".

Thanks for your consideration.

Rusty,
Pay attn to Chris in Ct for the most answer for your quesiton!
I've got an 'original' '29..6V. I've also got a '30 12V halogen/seat belt(etc.) equipped. I drive the '29 only during the day light hours and use hand signals(remember those for:turn/stop?) The ONE original tail light is not good in full sunlight and at speed in todays traffic..my opinion.
However, not only does the '30 keep up with traffic, if I turn the halogens on high, during the day..well people don't like it. But, they can sure see the halogen twin tail lights. Like Chris said...what do you want?
 
They also make a halogen 6vt bulb I dont rember were i saw it but it was deffinetley in eather in brants, mikes, or snyders catolog.
 
Rusty Bumper; "¿Why?".[QUOTE said:
You're right, why.

But it is easy if you really want to be a rebel and end up in Model A hell.
Here is why I prefer a 12 volt electrical system. Six volt electrics have been obsolete for over fifty years. Six volt batteries, cables, coils,bulbs and anything six volt is no longer easy to find,especially on the road. Slow six volt cranking doesn't thrill me in the least and neither does dim six volt lights. A six volt battery that is the least bit low won't have enough power to run the starter and fire the points, This can be a real problem if the car is not driven on a regular basis.

A good reason to change to 12 volt negative ground with an alternator is, you can use the quartz halogen bulbs that come in a kit with reflectors. This kit gives headlamps that are safer and ARE just as bright as the headlamps used on modern cars. The 12 volt halogen bulbs cost less and are readily available, so are 12 volt alternators. Six volt alternators are not and have to be ordered from a model A vendor. The original positive ground is more difficult to maintain and if you don't stay right on top of things will cause a slow turning starter and VERY poor lighting. Grounding problems can leave an inexperienced model A owner stranded and confused. How many times have I heard The starter is turning slow and there is no fire to the points?

Everything depends on what you want out of your model A. If you have a perfectly original model A , I would say leave it alone. If you want a more reliable driver that your wife ,children and grand children will be able to use, A 12 volt system could be a serious consideration. New day mechanic-technitions will know nothing about a six volt positive ground system and its unique problems. If you don't do your own repairs, a trip to a restoration shop could leave your pocket book with post partum depression.

I prefer my model A's to appear original. I am running my roadster on 12 volts with the original generator. This system gives VERY fast cranking with power to spare. I use the aluminized reflectors from Brattons and the halogen bulbs from Australia. These bulbs are brighter than model A bulbs but not as bright as the quartz halogen bulbs that require a 60 amp capable system. The 12 volt tail lamps are bright and much safer than the dim 3 candle power originals, Who wants to get rear ended? The model A generator will have NO problem charging 12 volts or more without modification. I use the Fun Projects voltage regulator that looks JUST like the reproduction cut out and can be had in positive or negative ground. All original type wireing harnesses are used and the only changes that I made was to install a 3.0 ohm coil, i2 volt bulbs,and the modern barrel starter drive for reliability. This system doesn't cause any visable modifications. The battery is hidden under the floor boards and nobody will see it or know the difference If a person wanted to change back to original, changing the battery would be the biggest thing, so why would anybody fret?

I have owned and driven model A's with original 32-50 candel power bulbs and they don't compare in any way to modern halogen lamps, even if you have re silvered reflectors and excellent ground. The comment that a person would change to 12 volt rather than replace a faulty wiring harness is ABSURD!!!! A faulty wiring harness wouldn't work regardless of the voltage, GET REAL! Resilvered reflectors are very expensive and a drawn out hassle to obtain, not only that the lights still WON'T be nearly as bright as the quartz halogen bulbs that are offered with reflectors in kit form.

Changing to twelve volt is not a bandaid but a MAJOR improvement for a car that will be driven on a regular basis. I know that a well tuned model A will crank with the weak six volt system but an inexperienced driver will often flood out and kill the battery to the point that it won't fire the points. I have always been a REBEL and damn proud of it. I don't think that being a rebel is a requirment for converting to a NEW DAY reliable 12 volt system. I have No problem with whatever system that a person chooses for their particular application. Model A hell can be tring to overcome some of the quirks of a weak six volt positive ground electrical system. Now how is that for HAMMERING the issue to hell? I'm not mad, just telling it the way that I see it and having fun in the process
 
Rusty Bumper; "¿Why?". I don't think that being a rebel is a requirment for converting to a NEW DAY reliable 12 volt system. Now how is that for HAMMERING the issue to hell? [/QUOTE said:
Lighten up, did you not read that I said it was easy to do? What do I have to put in one of those smiley faces at the end of the sentence.

But since you brought it up I wonder how many others out there feel there 6 volt system is reliable? I do!
 

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Lighten up, did you not read that I said it was easy to do? What do I have to put in one of those smiley faces at the end of the sentence.

But since you brought it up I wonder how many others out there feel there 6 volt system is reliable? I do!
Again I am not upset I'm just having fun and trying to cover all the bases. The original 6 volt system is very reliable for an experienced model A driver if everything is in PERFECT cond. Most of our collection are still original 6 volt. When I set forth to refurbish our roadster, I wanted it to be easy for my wife to start and drive and If the lights hadn't been REAL good she wouldn't drive it. Now I can sit back and enjoy the ride while she drives. She loves it and I tell people that I am the riding mechanic.
 
I once looked at a 1936 Ford Pickup that the owner said 'had been converted to 12V.'

He sure did. Put a 12V battery in and hooked 'er up. Fried that baby better than Colonel Sanders could have done!!!!

And he told me' Geez, I don't know why it did that....' Ruined a perfectly good 6V system.

My car came with a twelve volt battery in it. All the bulbs were burned out, but it ran fine. I put a six volt in it that was kicking around the barn, replaced the bulbs, reduced the charge rate from 15 amps to ten and haven't had a problem since!
 
Has anyone ever drained a 6V battery and had to jump with a 12 volt, I have and it cost me a very expensive 6V battery doing so, it wont happen again.
 
leave it 6 volt, install an alternator, if you have a cb radio or other 12 volt need, just install a motorcycle battery to run it, then charge after each tour, or drive.
 
You need to drive around in one of those shop coats to complete the look of mechanic.
Yeah, Mike, That would be cool. Maybe I can get one before the antique car and tractor show that we attend every November in Orville Al. Orville is about sixty five miles from our home. My wife and I have driven the roadster up there for the last three years.
 
I have a 6v system in my car, along with an alternator. I also have the quartz halogen headlights with the kit reflectors and LED tail lights. Everything works great, I have had no alternator problems in the 4 years I have had this set up, and the car starts every time just fine. Since I do not need to run any 12 v accessories the 6v system works just fine for me, and those quartz halogen lights really light up the road at night.
 
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