E15 warning from AAA

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E10 is giving us enough trouble, but the EPA has approved E15 and it is now available in at least three states. Here's the link to the news report: https://www.youtube.com/embed/ceW9Nc1hVHU?feature=player_detailpage

AAA warns that it will damage cars made before 2012, and that at least 8 manufacturers are saying use of it will void the warranty. If it's that bad for modern cars, it can't be good for our Model A's. And the delivery systems seem confused at best. We need to start specifying at fillup that we want 87 octane E10 at least, and non ethanol if available. I think we also need to write our representatives in Congress and tell them we want the option everywhere for non-ethanol gasoline. The whole corn gas thing is a sham and a scam anyway, not only damaging automobiles but actually reducing mileage and causing further damage to the environment, according to a report from the Associated Press. Read a partial report here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/e15.asp

I don't think this issue falls under posts that are political, and I believe it is relevant to our hobby since we know E10 can cause damage to our cars. This may have been posted and discussed before, but even if that's so, it bears repeating.
 
wasn't the ethanol project merely a sop to the farm states and their agricultural interests?
 
Here in SC we are lucky enough to have many gas stations offering pure gas but it cost the same as premium. I buy pure gas for all my cars even modern.
 
From the USA article cited above

Gasoline blended with 10% ethanol has become standard at most of the nation's 160,000 gas stations, spurred by federal laws and standards designed to use more renewable energy sources and lessen the nation's dependence on foreign oil. Pushed by ethanol producers, the EPA approved the use of E15 -- a 15% ethanol-gasoline blend -- in June over objections from automakers and the oil industry. It's been available at a handful of outlets in Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska since July.
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This is FALSE. E15 is NOT being legislated as a way to increase fossil fuel stocks - although it is commonly misbelieved to do so. In fact, alcohol blend does not reduce total consumption of oil since use of alcohol reduces mileage about in equal percentage to the percentage of deferred fossil fuel use.

And given another year of fracking, the US would be a net EXPORTER of fossil fuel - unless pending fracking legislation being considered by the EPA (they're open for comments currently) and due for implementation in 2015 takes hold. So saving oil or reducing oil imports just isn't in the game plan. Regulating the US energy markets however the government can - IS - and the Corn Farmers are complicit in this game plan.

As to Corn being a "renewable" resource - most of the chemical energy that goes to grow corn comes from - you guessed it - petroleum sourced nitrogen bearing compounds called FERTILIZER. Corn is a heavy feeder. No farmer I know grows corn without fertilizer UNLESS they use the corn as feed for their cows and manure derived therefrom completes the energy cycle. But thereby puts the corn energy out of reach of fermentation and distilling and propelling cars.

More accurately and truly - and NEVER mentioned in the media - is that ethanol in the gas promotes combustion of the fuel and reduces carbon monoxide emissions. Much as tetra-ethyl lead and later MTBE used to do. Some sort of oxygenator is essential to today's confined high speed combustion process. Ethanol is today's answer to both of these formerly common combustion assists. And why the EPA is so dead-set on it's widespread adoption.

The fact that the Corn Lobby has influenced regulations IS mentioned in the article. I will not comment on that except that money has influence. And right now a LOT of Corn money influences legislation - and the influence of money in politics is not anything new.

But not to excuse. It is what it is - until some other stronger political force wins the day.

Like um, the economy and jobs?

We're just not hungry enough yet. When we are, the Pols will listen and rein in that EPA.

Joe K
 
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I was disappointed to find Michigan doesn't have to label their pumps as to what kind of crap and the % is put in the gas. Because of this my new fuel pump in my Studebaker was destroyed in two days and I had to buy an electric pump to get home. Now, as of two weeks ago I've also seen 3 gas stations in Minnesota with no pump labels. The gevernment won't admit the crap gas mistake and have so many stills built, that I can't see an end to it any time soon. Thanksfully I can still buy the good gas locally.
 
I've never had any trouble with gas that I can attribute to ethanol,methanol yes,but not ethanol.I've been using it since 1980.It came to town marketed as gasahol.After a few months of us either complaining or praising it,we all seemed to forget about it.We just burned it.There do seem to be additives that must get overused at times,right out of the blue I will have rubber parts in some things turn to mush.All at once,and all in things I put fresh gas in.All in things I've been using ethanol in right along.I have an old gas pump that came from a little store near me.The owner had to install it in the early 50's for the coming need for leaded gas.He told me that the gas would go bad in the ground before he sold it.The old timers here thought it was downright foolish to be putting metal in gas.
 
there must be reverse gravity in NH is all I can say.

As for lead as an additive, it was another brain child of Charlie Kettering, and they began putting it in gas in the mid-late '30s. Way before 1950.

Av Gas still is 100% ethanol free and still has some lead in it (I guess the EPA doesn't want planes crashing out of the sky but they sure don't care about cars). Talk to the pilots...they all say that the gas lasts for YEARS

Like most others here I have spent more time, energy, money, and aggravation fighting the effects of crapahol on my several antique cars and those of our customers.

No offense intended here to anyone, just reporting my considerable experience. If it were not for the winters in MN, I'd move there next to Tom so I could get real gas whenever I wanted:):):)
 
tbirdtbird said:
there must be reverse gravity in NH is all I can say.

As for lead as an additive, it was another brain child of Charlie Kettering, and they began putting it in gas in the mid-late '30s. Way before 1950.

Av Gas still is 100% ethanol free and still has some lead in it (I guess the EPA doesn't want planes crashing out of the sky but they sure don't care about cars). Talk to the pilots...they all say that the gas lasts for YEARS

Like most others here I have spent more time, energy, money, and aggravation fighting the effects of crapahol on my several antique cars and those of our customers.

No offense intended here to anyone, just reporting my considerable experience. If it were not for the winters in MN, I'd move there next to Tom so I could get real gas whenever I wanted:):):)
Click to expand...

It is too ironic that one of the great oil states has to use corn gas. But I don't want to edge too close to political comment here. ;)
 
I have heard the same thing as tbirdtbird about aviation gas from a pilot. He said that aviation gas would last a long, long time with no ill affects and it is a blueish color. I am sure there is no alcohol of any kind in the aviation gas. Aviation gas is quite a bit more expensive, but I believe it has a higher octane.
Rusty Nelson
 
In the 50's, 60's and 70's I never worried about the shelf life of gasoline. It seem to work well no matter how old it was. And as Rusty mentioned, it had a blueish tint. It also smelled better than today's crap gas, and never hurt my hands when using it to clean parts. If I get any of this crap gas on my hands, they don't feel good for at least a day and several hand washings.
 
Other than gas mileage, I've never had a problem with our "corn" gas.
IF E-15 gets fairly common here, I WILL try 1/2 tank of it in Vermin, just to see "what goes"?? I "think" my GAV will make up for the lean running.
Where can I get a Bumper Snicker thet say's, "ALCOHOL FUNNY CAR, BEWARE"!!
Bill W.
 
The reason AV gas has a blue tint is because AV gas is colored to distinguish between the different octane ratings. 80/87 red, 91/96 brown, 91/115 green, 100LL blue and 115/145 purple (K1 jet fuel). On preflight when you drain the sample from the tank you always check for water and color.

You always want to make sure your octane rating is correct or you can ruin the engine quite rapidly. You'll detonate the engine to death. You can use a higher octane but not lower than the required grade for the type of aircraft. You will however have plug fouling with a higher octane fuel than is required for the aircraft. Many times I had to burn off the plugs before I could get the right and left mags within specs prior to takeoff.

AV gas is kind of overkill for a model A. You can deal with an engine failure much easier in an A.
 
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