Door Hinge Pin removal '31 Coupe & distributor fun.

Trapdoor2

Trapdoor2

Senior Member
I said in another thread that I could not get the RH (passenger side) upper door hinge pin out of my '31 Coupe (I'm installing mirrors). I was advised to make or purchase a hinge pin removal tool. I bought the one Snyder's sells.

This thing looks very robust. 1/2" bolts, hardened pins of different lengths, thick bars. Frankly, it looks like overkill to me. The driver's side pin came out with a pin punch and a little minor tapping. No such luck with the passenger side. Surely this honkin' tool will pop it right out...

Now the hinge pin tool has arrived and following the instructions, I lubed up the threads. I added some layers of masking tape to the contact surfaces in order to protect the paint on the hinge. Spritzed the pin with WD-40 and gave it a couple days to sink in.

Great googly-moogly! That hinge pin must be welded in place. I have to be putting 100ft/lbs of torque on the bolts (takes a 3/4" wrench)...and the pin has moved barely 1/8"...the locking knurl is showing under the head of the pin. I draped the door with protective rags, cranked down on the tool and took a 16oz Ball Pein hammer to the bottom of the tool...shock wave therapy. All my air hammers and rivet guns are long gone...might have to visit Harbor Freight again.

It moved another 0.03".

I sprayed it down with more WD-40 and left it to soak overnight tonight.

In the meantime, I have started removing the distributor. It is working fine...but it looks pitifully dry and dusty. I don't think it has been serviced in a very long time...and it appears all original. Pulling it out of the head/block just confirmed my suspicions...the shaft is rusty, the set screw in the block is rusty. The cam is dry and worn. The points have carbon on them. It has the original upper shaft and screw (undrilled). The side oiler is bone dry.

Fortunately, I just received a drilled shaft and screw. I just didn't think to order a new cam or points. The bushings appear to be in good shape, but I'll do the various checks on the bench tomorrow before I get another parts order on the way. :)
 
Trapdoor2 said:
I said in another thread that I could not get the RH (passenger side) upper door hinge pin out of my '31 Coupe (I'm installing mirrors). I was advised to make or purchase a hinge pin removal tool. I bought the one Snyder's sells.

This thing looks very robust. 1/2" bolts, hardened pins of different lengths, thick bars. Frankly, it looks like overkill to me. The driver's side pin came out with a pin punch and a little minor tapping. No such luck with the passenger side. Surely this honkin' tool will pop it right out...

Now the hinge pin tool has arrived and following the instructions, I lubed up the threads. I added some layers of masking tape to the contact surfaces in order to protect the paint on the hinge. Spritzed the pin with WD-40 and gave it a couple days to sink in.

Great googly-moogly! That hinge pin must be welded in place. I have to be putting 100ft/lbs of torque on the bolts (takes a 3/4" wrench)...and the pin has moved barely 1/8"...the locking knurl is showing under the head of the pin. I draped the door with protective rags, cranked down on the tool and took a 16oz Ball Pein hammer to the bottom of the tool...shock wave therapy. All my air hammers and rivet guns are long gone...might have to visit Harbor Freight again.

It moved another 0.03".

I sprayed it down with more WD-40 and left it to soak overnight tonight.

In the meantime, I have started removing the distributor. It is working fine...but it looks pitifully dry and dusty. I don't think it has been serviced in a very long time...and it appears all original. Pulling it out of the head/block just confirmed my suspicions...the shaft is rusty, the set screw in the block is rusty. The cam is dry and worn. The points have carbon on them. It has the original upper shaft and screw (undrilled). The side oiler is bone dry.

Fortunately, I just received a drilled shaft and screw. I just didn't think to order a new cam or points. The bushings appear to be in good shape, but I'll do the various checks on the bench tomorrow before I get another parts order on the way. :)
Click to expand...
Try a different type of lubricant!WD40 not the best.! Try pushing it back in then out! Good luck! Those tools are not that great!Also a 6 inch "C" Clamp, Small socket over top of pin head, Place Bottom jaw against bottom of pin.-Lubricate good- protect other areas with tape cardboard etc. Start twisting-small amounts so clamp dosen't twist off! It will come out!
 
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WD-40 is good for cleaning tar off of paint, bugs off of chrome bumpers, cleaning greasy hands, displacing water from electrical . Not much for penetrating oil, many better products for penetrating. Try opening the door if your try to remove the pin with the door closed. The best 35.00$ spent for me was an air hammer and grinding down a set to a point for knocking out door pins.
 
I use my angle grinder with a thin cuttind disc and cut a slot in the hinge . I stop when the pin starts to show . The pin drives out with normal bopping with a mediun hammer . If the slot is carefully placed it does not show . I only do this when EVERTHING else hails . Whan new top end knurled pins are are installed the door swings on the pin as it should not top and bottom .

John in sunny Chandler AZ
 
Trapdoor2 said:
I said in another thread that I could not get the RH (passenger side) upper door hinge pin out of my '31 Coupe (I'm installing mirrors). I was advised to make or purchase a hinge pin removal tool. I bought the one Snyder's sells.

This thing looks very robust. 1/2" bolts, hardened pins of different lengths, thick bars. Frankly, it looks like overkill to me. The driver's side pin came out with a pin punch and a little minor tapping. No such luck with the passenger side. Surely this honkin' tool will pop it right out...

Now the hinge pin tool has arrived and following the instructions, I lubed up the threads. I added some layers of masking tape to the contact surfaces in order to protect the paint on the hinge. Spritzed the pin with WD-40 and gave it a couple days to sink in.

Great googly-moogly! That hinge pin must be welded in place. I have to be putting 100ft/lbs of torque on the bolts (takes a 3/4" wrench)...and the pin has moved barely 1/8"...the locking knurl is showing under the head of the pin. I draped the door with protective rags, cranked down on the tool and took a 16oz Ball Pein hammer to the bottom of the tool...shock wave therapy. All my air hammers and rivet guns are long gone...might have to visit Harbor Freight again.

It moved another 0.03".

I sprayed it down with more WD-40 and left it to soak overnight tonight.

In the meantime, I have started removing the distributor. It is working fine...but it looks pitifully dry and dusty. I don't think it has been serviced in a very long time...and it appears all original. Pulling it out of the head/block just confirmed my suspicions...the shaft is rusty, the set screw in the block is rusty. The cam is dry and worn. The points have carbon on them. It has the original upper shaft and screw (undrilled). The side oiler is bone dry.

Fortunately, I just received a drilled shaft and screw. I just didn't think to order a new cam or points. The bushings appear to be in good shape, but I'll do the various checks on the bench tomorrow before I get another parts order on the way. :)
Click to expand...
TD - if you got the hinge pin to move 1/8” so that the knurls are visible it WILL remove completely. It’s probably stuck in the center (door) part of the hinge. As others have suggested, WD-40 is not what you need, you need a good penetrating oil like Kroil, which may need to soak overnight. Also, try loosening the removal tool completely and resetting it, being sure that the top button of the pin goes into the through hole in the top bar of the hinge pin tool and that the hardened pin in the bottom bar of the tool is pushing straight on the pin.
 
This technique worked every time it was tried.
 

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Thanks y'all!

I have had a bottle of Kroil in the shop for 30yrs. I've used it a couple of times...never saw any difference between it and WD-40. The WD-40 has penetrated completely thru the hinge, the pin was wet on the bottom the day after application. If it doesn't come out at the next attempt, I'll soak it with Kroil...and try again.

I imagine that pin does have steps worn in it. The Driver's side pin was bent and rusty (but it came right out). This one is just being a PITA.

Yes, when I saw that it had moved, I knew I could get it out...eventually. I'm just being cautious. Honking hard on that size of wrench near all that shiny paint...:eek:
 
OMG. Today, I made yet another attempt to get that hinge pin out. Loud "SNAP"...hardened steel dowel pin in the tool sheared off.

I got the pieces out. It appears that the lower portion of the hinge pin has swelled like a rivet, locking itself in place. The door wouldn't open.

So, since the hinge pin head was sticking up enough to get a screwdriver under it, I thought I'd do a little judicious prying. When I stuck the screwdriver tip under the head of the pin, the head fell off. No pressure at all...it had been cut off just below the knurling and driven in on top of a piece of rod (or something...not a roll pin). Somebody had trouble with this hinge before.

I put the hinge-pin tool back on upside down, attempting to extract it out the bottom...nope, not moving. I don't want to shear the extra pin that came with the tool (glad they sent two).

Hmmmmm...

Now I'm left with a hinge where the pin is stuck halfway, maybe 0.060" below the top and bottom of the hinge. The door eventually freed up with some gentle rocking.

The door hinges look like they come off fairly easily. I think I need to get that one out and work on it off the car. I gave away my big 2-ton hydraulic press 30yrs ago (no place for it). I have a propane torch. Heat is always a good thing (though I'll have to strip the paint off the hinge). I have a drill press. Might be able to drill the pin out or at least drill out enough to separate the halves. At least I have a buddy down the street who is a welder and can fix anything I bugger up.

Other suggestions?

I'm still having fun.:)

EDIT: just solved most of the issue...I didn't notice that half the hinge is riveted to the door frame. The body side has three screws. I can take the door off but drilling out the rivets and setting it up for screws is more surgery than I'm willing to take on at the moment.

I guess I'll touch up the hinge paint, stick the piece of hinge-pin head back in and put the passenger side mirror project on hold. When I feel like trying again, I'll attack it from the top with an air-hammer and a 7/32" drift.

Back to getting the seat moved back!
 
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Yah, I looked at the clip-on type but went with the hinge pin. The car came with a sidemount mirror on the driver's side. Since it has dual sidemounts, I just moved it to the passenger side. Eventually, I'll get that hinge sorted out...since now I have a passenger side hinge mount mirror sitting in its box... :rolleyes:
 
One problem with hinge pins in Model A's and early V8's is they will seize in the hole, then twist fracture, then really seize.


The first try is the hinge pin removal tool. They work great when the pin is free, and should be used annually when you remove the pins and lubricate (you do do that every year, right?). The tools are not designed to apply a lot of pressure and they do break or distort with over use.


Next is to try to drive the pin out with a punch. Soak with penetrating oil, grind the bottom of the pin flush with the bottom of the hinge (this helps avoid riveting) then hammer away.


Now it is time for heat. The knuckle of the body side hinge needs to become red hot. Try tapping it out with the punch and hammer while hot, if it does not move allow to cool to warm then soak with penetrating oil again, then punch and hammer.


Next step is to drill out the pin. Find someone who can drill a hole reasonably on center with a hand held drill. Start with a small diameter (say.. 3/16). Watch the chips. If you see a flake of rust and are centered you are likely going through a fracture in the pin. Quite a few flakes may indicate you are off center and cutting through the side of the pin, when you do that stop. As long as you have not cut through the side of the pin keep drilling it out with progressively larger drills, by 1/64 step. When you see rust flakes stop. Now repeat the penetrating oil step, tapping with a punch and hammer, heat.


Next is to get access to a cutting torch with a very small tip. Attempt to burn a slit in the pin with the torch but work quickly so the hinge itself does not heat up enough to burn. Repeat oil, punch, heat...


Last is major surgery. The cowl side of the hinge is done. Using a die grinder cut the knuckle out trying not damage the door side of the hinge. I make reproduction hinges (sold by the piece) which is an option or a used hinge piece. Due to the door side of the hinge being riveted on it should be saved unless damaged beyond repair on the door.
 
I've put the hinge pin removal on hold. It is going to take Dynamite or C4 to get that pin out. I think whatever was used in there is very soft and has swollen inside in my attempts to knock it out. I'll attempt to drill it out first and if that doesn't work...cut the body-side out and replace it (since that side has screws). That's going to be a task for another day.

The distributor rebuild is ready to happen. I had previously removed and disassembled it. I intended to replace the shaft with a drilled one I bought from "Mike's A-Ford able A's" but as I disassembled it, I realized that everything in there was worn out. It needed new bushings, new points, etc.

So, I ordered a rebuild kit and started cleaning up the body. That "Citristrip" paint stripper did a great job on the old paint. Got it repainted this morning, looks good. The rebuild kit (and reamer) came in and tomorrow I'll re-assemble it, set the point gap with the Quick-Time tool, pop it back in the Coupe and go thru timing, fine tuning the gap, etc. I have the Nu-Rex timing wrench, and the big 1-3/8" timing wrench, so it should be fun for my first time. I haven't messed with a distributor since I was a kid with a VW!
 
Trapdoor2 said:
I've put the hinge pin removal on hold. It is going to take Dynamite or C4 to get that pin out. I think whatever was used in there is very soft and has swollen inside in my attempts to knock it out. I'll attempt to drill it out first and if that doesn't work...cut the body-side out and replace it (since that side has screws). That's going to be a task for another day.

The distributor rebuild is ready to happen. I had previously removed and disassembled it. I intended to replace the shaft with a drilled one I bought from "Mike's A-Ford able A's" but as I disassembled it, I realized that everything in there was worn out. It needed new bushings, new points, etc.

So, I ordered a rebuild kit and started cleaning up the body. That "Citristrip" paint stripper did a great job on the old paint. Got it repainted this morning, looks good. The rebuild kit (and reamer) came in and tomorrow I'll re-assemble it, set the point gap with the Quick-Time tool, pop it back in the Coupe and go thru timing, fine tuning the gap, etc. I have the Nu-Rex timing wrench, and the big 1-3/8" timing wrench, so it should be fun for my first time. I haven't messed with a distributor since I was a kid with a VW!
Click to expand...
Suggest that you retime the way it's outlined in the Les Andrews Red Book rather than use the Nu-Rex timing wrench. That may be fine for a roadside quickie (as long as you are not using the modern points modification), but go back to fundamentals to get it right.

If you are using the traditional points and condenser setup, don't forget to remove the paint underneath where the condenser screws to the distributor body, it needs a solid ground there.
 
Yah, I now have a small library of Model A books. :) My Dad always said, "You don't have to remember everything...just remember where to look it up."

The "A" system is so simple and so forgiving, it boggles the mind. It is my tendency to use the original methods at least once...and then go with what works for me after that.

I masked off a spot for condenser contact.
 
Agree with Jayjay. I have the NewRex tool but found using the Les Andrews way and an ohm meter works better. Piece of cake outside the engine compartment especially.
 
I found this thread regarding hinge pins very interesting. I can't keep mine in on my roadster. They keep working their way up and out because they are worn. Is there a good way to alter the pins to keep them in place?

Glen
 
Lona said:
I found this thread regarding hinge pins very interesting. I can't keep mine in on my roadster. They keep working their way up and out because they are worn. Is there a good way to alter the pins to keep them in place?

Glen
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Glen - Assuming you have this problem with new pins (try replacing the pins first), you may be able to slightly deform the pin right underneath the head so that it fits tightly into the upper piece of the hinge. Classic machinist trick is to use a knurling fixture to do that but you might be able to carefully use a center punch or a chisel to distrupt the round portion. Go slowly and carefully, sneak up on it. When properly deformed you will have to use persuasion (maybe 10 oz persuasion) to insert the hinge fully.
 
JayJay said:
Glen - Assuming you have this problem with new pins (try replacing the pins first), you may be able to slightly deform the pin right underneath the head so that it fits tightly into the upper piece of the hinge. Classic machinist trick is to use a knurling fixture to do that but you might be able to carefully use a center punch or a chisel to distrupt the round portion. Go slowly and carefully, sneak up on it. When properly deformed you will have to use persuasion (maybe 10 oz persuasion) to insert the hinge fully.
Click to expand...


See:
https://modelastore.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=3988

Make note of the "knurled" area on the pins.

On carburetors sometimes these throttle stop pins are loose when installing them (the hole in casting is too large).

1. Close the jaws of your vise almost completely so that there is a small "valley" on top.

2. Place pin in the "valley" and use a small chisel to deform the pin slightly as JayJay mentioned in the post above.

Note the "valley" will keep the pin in place while you work on it.

Additional info:
It is not necessary to make the new "knurling" in line with existing knurling. Making them 90 degrees to old knurling works just fine.
 
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