door handle issue

[robertarley]

I am a fairly new owner of a 1931 Deluxe Coupe. The person I bought it from was only an accidental intermediary and not an enthusiast. He only bought it as a favor to the family of the previous elderly owner.

Somewhere along the line, a previous owner had removed the two door handles and had accidentally reinstalled them on the wrong doors. In other words, the keyed door handle is on the driver's side, and the non-keyed handle is on the passenger side. I figured that I could simply swap them out. After removing the screws on the keyed handle bezel, it simply pulled straight out. The ignition key seems to fit it, and it will turn 90 degrees, but then the key cannot be removed. I don't know if this means it's inoperable or not. I could always purchase a new keyed door handle if needed.

However, my real issue is the non-keyed handle. I removed both the bezel screws and the screws holding the lock mechanism in the door frame but cannot get the handle out. I am aware of the secret 45-degree trick used to normally remove the keyed handle, but that doesn't seem to work with the non-keyed handle stuck in the passenger side latch assembly. I'm assuming that the handle shafts of the two handles are machined differently.

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on how to solve this issue.

I can always just put the key handle back on the driver side door and live with it, but that might drive my OCD levels up.

Cheers

P.S. I haven't tried to remove the inside door panel yet but have used a small tube to spray some penetrating oil inside the lock mechanism. I have no idea if that is reaching the shaft of the stuck handle, though.

 

[Bigpilo65]

The key sticking at 90 degrees is normal behavior for a locked cylinder. Spray some electronic cleaner or graphite lubricant inside the keyway to clear out 90 years of gummed-up grease.

Once both handles are out, clean up the shafts, swap them to their proper factory positions (keyed on passenger side, non-keyed on driver side), and your OCD can rest easy.

 

[robertarley]

@Bigpillo65

Thanks for the hint on the key. I'll get some graphite when I go to Home Depot tomorrow. However, my bigger issue is getting the non-keyed handle out of the passenger side door. It seems to be stuck hard. Any thoughts on that issue? I want to avoid hurting the paint.

Cheers

 

[Gary WA]

I am a fairly new owner of a 1931 Deluxe Coupe. The person I bought it from was only an accidental intermediary and not an enthusiast. He only bought it as a favor to the family of the previous elderly owner.

Somewhere along the line, a previous owner had removed the two door handles and had accidentally reinstalled them on the wrong doors. In other words, the keyed door handle is on the driver's side, and the non-keyed handle is on the passenger side. I figured that I could simply swap them out. After removing the screws on the keyed handle bezel, it simply pulled straight out. The ignition key seems to fit it, and it will turn 90 degrees, but then the key cannot be removed. I don't know if this means it's inoperable or not. I could always purchase a new keyed door handle if needed.

However, my real issue is the non-keyed handle. I removed both the bezel screws and the screws holding the lock mechanism in the door frame but cannot get the handle out. I am aware of the secret 45-degree trick used to normally remove the keyed handle, but that doesn't seem to work with the non-keyed handle stuck in the passenger side latch assembly. I'm assuming that the handle shafts of the two handles are machined differently.

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on how to solve this issue.

I can always just put the key handle back on the driver side door and live with it, but that might drive my OCD levels up.

Cheers

P.S. I haven't tried to remove the inside door panel yet but have used a small tube to spray some penetrating oil inside the lock mechanism. I have no idea if that is reaching the shaft of the stuck handle, though.

Is there a small pin holding the handle on? Some have this pin!

 

[robertarley]

Is there a small pin holding the handle on? Some have this pin!

There is no pin that I am aware of. Once I remove the two bezel srews it allows the bezel to rotate, but there is no access to the internals at all. The operating shaft of the door handle is locked into the internal door mechanism. That mechanism is held in place by four scews in the door frame. Removing those screws makes the mechanism slightly loose, but it can not be extracted because the door handle shaft prevents it.

Cheers

 

[robertarley]

Well, never mind! I took a chance with a rubber mallet by first tapping the handle inward just in case the shaft was frozen in the lock mechanism due to rust. Afterward, I resumed pulling, and voilà, it finally came free.

Thanks for responding, all.

 

[Ray in La Mesa]

KOOL, glad to hear you got it out.

 

[The Old Guy]

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As far as the lock cylinder not turning all the way in the handle, the bezel/escutcheon has to be in a certain position before the cylinder will turn all the way.

 

[robertarley]

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As far as the lock cylinder not turning all the way in the handle, the bezel/escutcheon has to be in a certain position before the cylinder will turn all the way.

I finally stumbled across that fact while playing with the keyed handle after I reinserted it into the passenger-side door cavity. (Only after finally getting the non-keyed handle out of that same door) I still have a minor issue that is worth explaining in detail so others will know how to deal with these damned handles.


Both handles have a feature to help prevent someone from removing them by simply unscrewing the bezel. Here is a picture I found on the net of a non-keyed handle, but the keyed versions are the same. Notice how the shaft is designed. It is basically square except for a 1/2 inch area about 1/8th of an inch from the end. That area is a smaller diameter rounded shaft. On my originals, that area is not round, but is a smaller square rotated 45 degrees from the rest of the shaft. The shape of the recessed area is irrelevant

This is a secret locking mechanism to stop someone from breaking into the car with nothing more than a screwdriver. Both internal door lock mechanisms have square holes for the square shaft of the door handle. However, at the very back of that mechanism is an additional baffle with its square hole oriented at 45 degrees out from the main hole. Thus, to fully insert the shaft or remove it, one must turn the handle about 45 degrees out of the norm to slip past that baffle. It is not as easy as it sounds since you will be doing this under the tension of the lock spring. It's probably easiest with new parts, but can be very difficult to remove with old handle shafts that are rusty and crudded up with fossilized grease.

To partially solve this difficulty for my vehicle, some former owner used a file or a bench grinder on my keyed handle to grind down the offending end of the shaft- thereby eliminating its secret locking feature. This is why my keyed handle literally dropped out of the driver's side door after I removed the bezel screws. Since the non-keyed handle shaft still had this feature, it just took a lot of jiggling while turning to get out.

Consequently, I now have a keyed door handle that will lock with the original ignition key. Since I don't plan on leaving any of my bags of gold in the car unattended, the altered keyed handle is only a minor security risk. Also, since both handles are probably the originals that came with the car, I'll most likely consider this issue done with.

If you read this far--thanks and
Cheers

P.S. This info pertains mainly to my two-door closed coupe and any other similar locking door layout such as the Tudor sedan. I have no idea how much of it pertains to roadsters, Phaetons, and/or Fordors.