Does ****** move forward during engine removal?

D

diyforever

Junior Member
While removing engine, forgot the two lower bell housing bolts. Grrrr... Once bolts removed, engine came out. Removed bell housing to rebuild clutch and pedal shafts.
Installed rebuilt bellhousing. BUT i noticed now that brake pedal to cross shaft brake rod is now about ½ inch to short.
The rod won't reach the pedal. Is it possible the ****** moved forward when I was pulling/yanking the engine out?
If so, any tricks to slide it back...I hope!
 
The rod won't reach the pedal. Is it possible the ****** moved forward when I was pulling/yanking the engine out?
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Very likely. What positions the rear axle/torque tube/transmission assembly minus the flywheel housing is simply the rear spring - and its orientation to the frame.

MEANWHILE, the brake cross shaft is "anchored" in place, giving the "short" rods you have discovered.

When you remove the engine you remove any restraint of the rear axle "moving forward" under the clamping force between the spring and rear cross-member.

My experience has been the natural tendency of the rear axle IS to move forward when the engine is removed. The remedy is to somehow "jack it back" using a porta-power, large bar clamps, come-along between rear crossmember, or even a fulcrum/capable assistant between the axle and rear cross-member.

It doesn't take a lot of force and will move fairly easily. With the flywheel housing and rear engine supports holding, all will be as it was.

Joe K
 
No, haven't reinstalled engine. I'm anticipating problem if ****** moved. Strange thing is that I noticed a bit of an alignment problem when mating the radius rod with the bellhousing. The ball did fit once I dropped and leveled the ******. But it raised the first flag. Second flag raised when brake pedal to cross shaft rod won't reach pedal.
 
Joe K, thks much for your suggestions. Makes me feel better knowing it's likely it moved and a solution is also there.
 
The trunnion at the back of the transmission holds the transmission to the rear axle/radius rods/torque tube, the spring on the axle is bolted to the frame.The engine sets the alignment to the frame,the trunnion or 'clamshell' allows the rear suspension to work,it provides a pivot,there fore its kind of hard to align the transmission without the engine installed.

What I'm trying to say its hard to align the transmission with it hanging on the trunnion most likely what you are seeing isn't fore and aft movement but oscillation,the trunnion or clamshell allows oscillation for the suspension to work.
 
A person can support the frame at the rear of the vehicle and disconnect the rear spring from the cross member then disconnect the brake rods & shocks so the drive train can be moved aft. It would make the recoupling of the U-joint spline a bit easier and allow the engine to be placed in the frame with less fit problems. There are likely other ways to deal with the problem but the model A drive train & suspension components move around a bit when separated from the engine and worn or some what tweeked parts can make the situation more difficult.
 
Reading this post has set off a lamp bulb in my brain. I have been restoring a 29 Tudor and when I installed the front floor mat it seemed like the engine/trans needed to move forward about 3/16" in order to fit properly. I did remove the engine and installed a reman. I did not remove the trans or diff.

Could I have changed the engine/trans position when doing the engine replacement?
Is there any slack in the rear engine mounts to move everything forward?

I also installed new rear engine mount rubber pieces as well-if that makes any difference.
 

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Take the engine AND the trans out 'together'. It is SO much easier to do it that way. Once you have them together on a stand (I have used a large sturdy old padded chair for years), then you can separate the two and work on either one as necessary on separate stands/tables as need be. First saw this method in an old 'Model A News' publication issue from 1973.


Over the past 30 years I have used this method four times and have found the process to be very simple and easy to deal with the removal. Once reassembled, reinstalling the complete unit is then straight-forward.
 
I've never taken the gearbox and engine out together so I can't comment on that. I have plenty of times, taken the engine on its own. aligning the gearbox input shaft and the clutch plate can take a bit of back and forth, especially since I work alone but through experience, I have it down to a fine art now. I know what to look for so I will likely keep doing it this way.
As for the gearbox and rear axle moving forward, I'd tie a rope around the rear end and rear bumpers, then wind it up to pull the axle back as far as you need. Tie off the rope when you're happy and all should be good.
 
I just had my engine out and in again and my trans had scooted forward enough to keep the rear engine mounts not line up with the bell housing tapped holes. I was able to lever the trans back with the engine back on the hook and the trans raised up a touch from its ratchet strap cradle.
 
This is one of those procedures where folks deviate from each other a lot. What may seem to be an easier way to do something may not be a easy as it looks. Much of this variation is due to the availability of tools or shop equipment that would aid in the project. A person has to work with what they have so that limits capability to make the job easier sometimes. Many a model A engine was taken out with a tree limb as the tool to use the block & tackle or the chainfall.
 
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Thank you all for your help. I finally installed the engine and was surprised to find that it lined up on the motor mounts with some coercing. I guess it all lines back up when you put the engine back. One other curious thing was when I tried to attached the brake rod to the brake pedal it was short. Well, I measured and it was 14 ½ inches. It should be 16. WOW! I couldn't believe what I saw. Got a new one and all is well. On to fine tuning.
 
Synchro909 said:
I've never taken the gearbox and engine out together so I can't comment on that. I have plenty of times, taken the engine on its own. aligning the gearbox input shaft and the clutch plate can take a bit of back and forth, especially since I work alone but through experience, I have it down to a fine art now. I know what to look for so I will likely keep doing it this way.
As for the gearbox and rear axle moving forward, I'd tie a rope around the rear end and rear bumpers, then wind it up to pull the axle back as far as you need. Tie off the rope when you're happy and all should be good.
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My problem is that the engine/trans needs to move forward about 3/16" . Two things are pointing me too that fix.

First is that the front floor mat does not fit properly. If you look at the photo you can see a slight gap in front of the trans shift tower--the rear part of the mat where the trans tower fits through the hole in the mat is slightly pushed up the tower.

The second thing that I noticed was the front motor mount springs are not completely perpendicular to the cross member. See photo.

So my question is: Can the engine/trans be moved forward 3/16".

At this point (which is a bit too late) I think that the car may have been hit at some point in the front right corner.
 

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I have the same problem now after going from float a motor to stock rear mounts. A very small amount of difference but enough for me to make some adjustments by re drillling the steering column cover plate hole on the lower board and some filing to gain clearance on the pedals. But I would like to know why it is sitting further back a bit.
 
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