Chris/Mass
Member
A little rich for my blood but what a collection.
Dingman Collection auction
- Thread starter Chris/Mass
- Start date
19Fordy
Well-known member
Here's a nice credit to Mike Kubarth. What a beauty.
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=DM12&CarID=r111&fc=0
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=DM12&CarID=r111&fc=0
itslow
Well-known member
I think you'll find that to be the case for most every restoration - restoration cost exceeds sale price. Not necessarily to that extreme, though.
Kube
Super Moderator
Judging by the numbers ($) from his last auction many of the cars brought way more then the typical market value at the time.
He has one of my restorations in his collection. I keep checking to see if it will come up for sale. Thus far, it appears he's holding on to it.
Vic Piano
Well-known member
KUBE, take a look at the above post from 19Forty, the car is in the auction, lot #817. Here is part of the write up from the RM Auction catalog...
The Dingman Collection’s 1940 Ford Deluxe Convertible Coupe was acquired from Michael Kubarth, of Racine, Wisconsin, and was restored to a very high standard. Immediately following its acquisition, it was shipped directly to Roush Performance Products to be prepared for its participation in the Great American Race, which included having the engine rebuilt to Mr. Dingman’s exacting standards, the remarkable details of which are listed in the front of this catalog, and for which the paperwork on file amounts to approximately $36,000 in additional work. Other special touches include conversion to 12-volt electrics, allowing the use of an electric radiator fan for reliable operation in all climates and the discreet installation of a modern stereo system under the dashboard. Imagine that...
The Dingman Collection’s 1940 Ford Deluxe Convertible Coupe was acquired from Michael Kubarth, of Racine, Wisconsin, and was restored to a very high standard. Immediately following its acquisition, it was shipped directly to Roush Performance Products to be prepared for its participation in the Great American Race, which included having the engine rebuilt to Mr. Dingman’s exacting standards, the remarkable details of which are listed in the front of this catalog, and for which the paperwork on file amounts to approximately $36,000 in additional work. Other special touches include conversion to 12-volt electrics, allowing the use of an electric radiator fan for reliable operation in all climates and the discreet installation of a modern stereo system under the dashboard. Imagine that...
CBoz
Member
"Other special touches include conversion to 12-volt electrics, allowing the use of an electric radiator fan for reliable operation in all climates and the discreet installation of a modern stereo system under the dashboard."
Modern stereo, pfffft. If I went through that much effort on the engine I'd want to hear *it*.
Modern stereo, pfffft. If I went through that much effort on the engine I'd want to hear *it*.
Kube
Super Moderator
Thanks for the very kind words 19Fordy and leading me to the sale. I looked at that car but didn't read the verbiage that accompanied it simply because it didn't look like my car. I mean a cup holder? Really? Plus, that engine compartment... yech. I never had the bumper tips nor the grille guard on there either.
NOW I know why!
ARRRGGGHHH! My stomach hurts...
The real shame as I see it was the customizing of that particular vehicle. It was an honest 999 point car, one that I went "crazy" on during the restoration. The engine was the last remaining NOS engine I had, purred like a kitten and was very strong.
Vic, you may find this humorous...no kidding - but the single point I lost on that car (Dearborn, 2003) was for leaving two, yes two pits in one of the rear axle housings.
NOW I know why!
ARRRGGGHHH! My stomach hurts...
The real shame as I see it was the customizing of that particular vehicle. It was an honest 999 point car, one that I went "crazy" on during the restoration. The engine was the last remaining NOS engine I had, purred like a kitten and was very strong.
Vic, you may find this humorous...no kidding - but the single point I lost on that car (Dearborn, 2003) was for leaving two, yes two pits in one of the rear axle housings.
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V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
KUBE, take a look at the above post from 19Forty, the car is in the auction, lot #817. Here is part of the write up from the RM Auction catalog...
The Dingman Collection’s 1940 Ford Deluxe Convertible Coupe was acquired from Michael Kubarth, of Racine, Wisconsin, and was restored to a very high standard. Immediately following its acquisition, it was shipped directly to Roush Performance Products to be prepared for its participation in the Great American Race, which included having the engine rebuilt to Mr. Dingman’s exacting standards, the remarkable details of which are listed in the front of this catalog, and for which the paperwork on file amounts to approximately $36,000 in additional work. Other special touches include conversion to 12-volt electrics, allowing the use of an electric radiator fan for reliable operation in all climates and the discreet installation of a modern stereo system under the dashboard. Imagine that...
Vic...This is an interesting volley. In your "lunchtime" campaign, you've made reference on at least three occasions to "trailer queens", and that you BUILD your cars to be driven. In the "lunchtime" post that you later deleted with reference to Kube and I being "kissin' cousins", you also made specific reference to Kube's restorations being "trailer queens". Interesting to note that the subject '40 Ford convertible in the above-noted auction obviously DID NOT turn-out to be a "trailer queen". Imagine that an almost perfect (999 point) restoration MUST ONLY putt back and forth, into and out of a trailer. Well, THIS resto kind of proves that theory isn't quite all it was imagined to be. Those Great Race guys "pound" on those cars way harder than you ever will on your "driver" Zep. By the way, I've never met Kube. I've never even spoken to Kube. I'm a '40 Ford guy, among other interests. ANYBODY in the '40 Ford world that knows just a little bit knows what Kube turns-out, and what he's made of. Seems like his ol' trailer queens will go right on down the road just fine. DD
klicker
Senior Member
It says he had Roush go through the motor.... what a waste of your "last NOS engine" Some people have more $ than sense. Obviously he can do what he wants, but would have been nice to set that engine aside and have Roush build another one for the car. But what do I know?
By the way Kube, I appreciate your expertise (particularly about 40s) and the good advice you provide here.
Vic Piano
Well-known member
Coopman, you are right,
I don't build "trailer queens". Apparently, Mr. Dingman didn't feel that the Flathead in the '40 was up to the task of running the "Great Race", so he had it rebuilt.
He also converted the car to 12 volts and added a few additional accessories but it was his car and his prerogative when he did so. In reality, KUBES restoration (as beautiful as it was) did not compete in the Great Race as he had built it, as you imply (that is not to say that it couldn't have). As for driving the cars, I have a '47 Convertible that I bought in 1997 and I've put just under 144,000 miles on it to date. I've driven my '39CS up and down the east coast from NY to FL several times, and I drive our other Flatheads on extended road trips every chance I get. To reiterate, I have no problem with KUBES restorations, I think they are beautiful cars, in previous post (which by the way, I did not delete) I simply pointed out a misnomer that he had previously stated as fact, case in point “Opera Coupes”. Imagine that! Trailer Queens, daily drivers, un-restored originals, hot rods, etc. all have a place in the hobby and all should be appreciated.
By the way, I'm glad to see that you are still a fan and that you apparently continue to delve into my postings with an intense level of scrutiny, I appreciate that.
Vic Piano
Well-known member
Kube
Super Moderator
...in previous post (which by the way, I did not delete) I simply pointed out a misnomer that he had previously stated as fact, case in point “Opera Coupes”.
Hey Vic,
I purposely deleted part of the post (above) I am responding to simply to save a bit of space.
I am not getting in to any fray going on here but did want to comment
(oh -oh) once again about 1940 Ford (so called) opera coupes.
The public at large has long ago dubbed these cars opera coupes and yes, some of the Ford parts books, etc. calls them that. The fact does remain that Ford Motor Co. termed them BUSINESS COUPES. Period.
Even Lorin Sorensen in his book The Classy Ford V8 states this clearly on page 102.
I quote: "Nicknamed "opera coupe" by the public, but officially called the Business Coupe, the car in this configuration was ideal for the businessman or family with small children (or small adults). The fold-up seats hinged down from the side wall to stand on a peg while a padded rail served as a backrest." Unquote.
It goes on to describe the availability of both the Business coupe with jump seats or the 5-window Coupe with a single seat and package shelf.
So, my point is: If anyone knew Fords it was Lorin Sorensen.
The public may call them whatever they choose. However, I think it important that at the very least, the public should know the fact(s) before making their choice.
In response to your earlier comments about my "trailer queens"... I never took that as an insult but rather a compliment. Thank you.
My "trailer queens" are ready to roll with the best 'drivers'. I enjoy building them more so then driving them. However, when and if I sell them, well, what the new owner does is his prerogative. Whether or not I can understand the thinking process.
With due respect,
Mike Kubarth
Hey Vic,
I purposely deleted part of the post (above) I am responding to simply to save a bit of space.
I am not getting in to any fray going on here but did want to comment
(oh -oh) once again about 1940 Ford (so called) opera coupes.
The public at large has long ago dubbed these cars opera coupes and yes, some of the Ford parts books, etc. calls them that. The fact does remain that Ford Motor Co. termed them BUSINESS COUPES. Period.
Even Lorin Sorensen in his book The Classy Ford V8 states this clearly on page 102.
I quote: "Nicknamed "opera coupe" by the public, but officially called the Business Coupe, the car in this configuration was ideal for the businessman or family with small children (or small adults). The fold-up seats hinged down from the side wall to stand on a peg while a padded rail served as a backrest." Unquote.
It goes on to describe the availability of both the Business coupe with jump seats or the 5-window Coupe with a single seat and package shelf.
So, my point is: If anyone knew Fords it was Lorin Sorensen.
The public may call them whatever they choose. However, I think it important that at the very least, the public should know the fact(s) before making their choice.
In response to your earlier comments about my "trailer queens"... I never took that as an insult but rather a compliment. Thank you.
My "trailer queens" are ready to roll with the best 'drivers'. I enjoy building them more so then driving them. However, when and if I sell them, well, what the new owner does is his prerogative. Whether or not I can understand the thinking process.
With due respect,
Mike Kubarth
Kube
Super Moderator
Thank you.KUBE, I thought the '40 was a beautiful car.
Vic Piano
Well-known member
...in previous post (which by the way, I did not delete) I simply pointed out a misnomer that he had previously stated as fact, case in point “Opera Coupes”.
Hey Vic,
I purposely deleted part of the post (above) I am responding to simply to save a bit of space.
I am not getting in to any fray going on here but did want to comment
(oh -oh) once again about 1940 Ford (so called) opera coupes.
The public at large has long ago dubbed these cars opera coupes and yes, some of the Ford parts books, etc. calls them that. The fact does remain that Ford Motor Co. termed them BUSINESS COUPES. Period.
Even Lorin Sorensen in his book The Classy Ford V8 states this clearly on page 102.
I quote: "Nicknamed "opera coupe" by the public, but officially called the Business Coupe, the car in this configuration was ideal for the businessman or family with small children (or small adults). The fold-up seats hinged down from the side wall to stand on a peg while a padded rail served as a backrest." Unquote.
It goes on to describe the availability of both the Business coupe with jump seats or the 5-window Coupe with a single seat and package shelf.
So, my point is: If anyone knew Fords it was Lorin Sorensen.
The public may call them whatever they choose. However, I think it important that at the very least, the public should know the fact(s) before making their choice.
In response to your earlier comments about my "trailer queens"... I never took that as an insult but rather a compliment. Thank you.
My "trailer queens" are ready to roll with the best 'drivers'. I enjoy building them more so then driving them. However, when and if I sell them, well, what the new owner does is his prerogative. Whether or not I can understand the thinking process.
With due respect,
Mike Kubarth
Mike, As far as the "Opera Coupe" debate goes, I agree that Loren Sorensen does know Ford history, I also know that most people that are into Early V8's look at the EFV8 Club as "the authority" and on their web site (as I previously posted) they list the '40 Deluxe & Standard Coups as Business (Opera) coupes and apparently got the definitions from original Ford literature. It is truly an enigma wrapped in a puzzle. As for my reference to Trailer Queens, it was meant as a complement. Vic
sawzall
Senior Member
i may be wrong.. but i believe this 39 has a liberal dose of fiddleback maple? hopefully someone who attends the auction will take some photos.