Defective Distributor Points

C

connecticut mike

Member
Good evening,

Being a newbie I'm not able to offer much in exchange for all the good advice that I have received from this forum, but sharing a recent experience may help someone. My A wouldn't start after refueling. It had been driven less than a mile to the gas station and ran fine. The problem turned out to be a mechanical breakdown of the insulator that supports the stud for the wire connections on the ignition points. My distributor has a "modern" style upper plate, that was installed by a previous owner. I don't know the make of the points, or how many miles on them.

The failed insulator is a white-colored plastic material that appears to be molded over the head of the stud and has slots on three of its edges for supporting it in the bracket of the stationary point. The insulator material appears to have compressed or flowed, perhaps from heat and pressure, in one small spot inside one of the slots which allowed the head of the stud to contact the grounded metal point bracket. This effectively "shorted" the points.

Mike
 
Mike - Good catch. I worked in industrial maintenance for 35-years, and the first trouble shooting method I would use was "look at it".

It would be interesting if a "make" could be found for those points (I know you stated not knowing).
 
A similar thing happened to one of our club members at a show. Turns out (after going through the whole ignitions circuit, the condenser developed a dead short, and the current flow through the points melted the plastic insulator on the modern points terminal block even with the intermittant flow from the closing and opening of the points. If the cranking of the engine stopped with the points closed, the fuse would blow.
 
There have been a lot of cheap junk points and condensers sold over the years. And, it also makes a difference the way things are installed.
 
Several years ago we did a review of the various points available. The Wells brand was the best for us at the time and were in the mid range as far as price.
 
I had similar problems with the so called modern points. The points would short to the distributor housing where the pig tail of the condenser connects to the points. The only thing that would make it run again was to replace the points. The condensers fail with this setup about as often as the points do. Some think that the V8 setup is so cool that they will continue to try and get by with it even after several failures. These parts were originaly designed for the V8 Ford distributors. The V8 distributors had a cam screw that was used for adjustment. The modified model A breaker plate that is used with this make shift setup doesn't have the adjustment screw and the points are difficult to work with. Not only are the points difficult to adjust, the points and condensers are the cheapest made in China junk that the venders can get. Better V8 points are sometimes available at NAPA but they cost at least twice as much as the good original style points like the better model A vendors sell. The original style points are easy to adjust, even my wife can set them. I've used the same original style points in my 31 sedan since 1999 with great service. I've owned and repaired my model A's for over fifty years and I can tell you that there is NO advantage with the make shift V8 setup. For a reliable setup it will be necessary to replace the whole upper breaker plate assembly with an original breaker plate and points. This is just my experience.
 
Purdy Swoft, hit the nail on the head. Had the same problem with the modern points, went back to original, and no more problems.
 
Purdy says: "....... even my wife can set them."

Wow, Purdy! You're already in trouble with the mouse-lovers (see the recent thread on "Rodent Control")....

Are ya sure ya wanna mess with the LADIES too? Think your distributor has backlash, take on them ladies and you'll be getin' backlashed upside the head!
 
Usually the ladies don't do model A repairs. I guess I should have worded it different. It was really meant as a compliment. Deb has been with me since her late teens. She can do some model A repairs and can drive the model A's as good as me, so can our daughter.
 
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Just teasing ;) I'm always appreciative of you, Purdy, for your experienced, thoughtful and well-written insights.

I must admit I'm experimenting with "modern" points. Those advocating switching from the original propose several improvements: (1) the cam block is nylon rather than fiber and holds up longer thereby diminishing the need for frequent readjustment of point gap (which even MY wife can do, by the way :D); (2) point and point block are a single unit so stay in alignment providing more accurate firing; (3) the condenser is located on the upper plate and diminishes the problem of becoming over-heated.

These arguments seem reasonable and I want to test them for myself. Comments on this thread and others have suggested many of the currently-available brands of modern points are not well-manufactured and are thus unreliable. I'm trying the Accel #8201 points/condenser set based on comments of reviewers on other threads. The Accel points are supposed to be well-built and reliable... they should be for $35!! We'll see, and I'll report back to you.

I have switched out my coil based on Purdy's recommendation on other threads. I'm now using the Pertronix "Flame Thrower" 1.5 ohm epoxy Model # 40111 (6 volt). I love it! I've seen an immediate improvement in starting and running performance. I also changed the rotor and plug gaps accordingly.

I like to try just one new thing at a time.... coil first, then modern points. So far, so good. Next is to upgrade the bottom plate to include the 100-strand pigtail discussed in other threads.

Thanks to all for adding to THIS thread.. I'll watch for the bad things you guys experienced and will know better what to look for.

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Hope the weather wherever you are has allowed you to go for a drive in your Model A!
 
With the more expensive points you may be good for a while if you can find a good condenser . I wish you the best of luck. I never had any problems with rubbing block wear with the V8 points .

It never got out of the low forties here. Its cold damp and windy. We didn't drive the model A today. Son in law and I are frying a turkey out on the deck. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
 
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Hi Del,

I think that over-tightening of the nut on the stud was a contributing cause of the failure. In fact, I detected the insulator breakdown by loosening the nut while an ohmmeter was connected across the opened points. The short changed to an open circuit as I loosened the nut.

Mike
 
i got a set of Modern Points and Condenser as part of a "tune up kit" offered under ACCEL label from Summit Racing. I don't recall the Summit Part number but I saved the bubble pack. ACCEL part # 8201. Still working great!
 
Aren't the points for the modern setup 1950's -1960's Ford stock points? My understanding is they used points from those years because they could be gotten from most any parts store.
 
the whole modern point thing started back when Model A NOS points were getting hard to find, and the quality after market repros were as well. So One of the early A suppliers, Rick, started having points made in Brazil. The quality was terrible, so folks started using "modern" points, which were stock Ford points for the common Ford engines of the day. I seem to recall 72 Ford V8, but I'm not absolute about that. Fast forward to today, when quality A parts are being made and poor quality 60/70 parts are being made, and the Stock A points are now the better choice,
 
I just bought a set of Echlin points for my modern upper plate. The NAPA guy told me that they are American made. We'll see if they're good. Some of the foreign points are garbage and get out of alignment.
Rog
 
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