Damaged motor

visionary

visionary

Senior Member
I just went for a second ride in my recently purchased 26 tudor, about 2 miles into my journey the motor started banging. it sounded like a rod was letting loose. so i pulled over and clicked it off.

When i got out to look, the first thing i saw was antifreez coming out the bottom of the crankcase though a hole that lookes like a rod hit it. but no oil? i looked at the sight gague and the oil level is up near the upper petcock. and i know there was oil in it as i just did an oil change. i'm new to Model t's so i can't figure out how the motor is full of oil but just coolant coming out. also the side of the crankcase is ripped open just below where it bolts to the motor.

I'M guessing if there's coolant coming out the bottom that the block is probably trashed and that's a shame as this is a numbers matching car.

Thanks
Scott
 
That sucks. Sounds like no oil was getting pumped to the front of the engine through the oil tube. The regular Model T oil level is pretty much contained in the transmission housing and this tube needs to deliver oil to the front when running. That could explain the lack of oil running from the hole in the pan. Depends on how high the hole in the pan is. If it is next to the block the oil level would never be that high but if you did not see any evidence of oil with the antifreeze I assume it was not lubricating correctly. The tube could be plugged, rusted out, whatever.

The antifreeze is definitely not a good sign.

Sorry to hear about your trouble.

Pete
 
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Thanks pete, it sounds like i had a big problem brewing. the smaller of the two holes is directly in the bottom of the tin cover that bolts to the crankcase, and no sign of any oil coming out at all.

Looks like i'll be shopping for a new motor.

Scott
 
I think you should take this engine apart and see if it is salvagable before you run off and get another. It probably is not but who knows. Depends on where the coolant was coming from. If you want to save the matching numbers I would investigate the cause of the failure. If that is not important you may be better off getting another engine.

Just my opinion and everyone has one.

Thanks,
Pete
 
I'll probably do just that, if anything just to learn a few things about the T motor. the crazy thing was that the antifreeze was coming out so pure and clean you could have put it back in the bottle and reused it, i mean no sign of oil at all and it emptied the whole radiator!

Scott
 
Busted up as it sounds it's got to come out. The anti is coming from a cracked (or whatever) spot in the water jacket. You could have just thrown a bad rod. At least that's what it sounds like from your description. Beyond your initial (substantial) problem I would try to find out where the coolant is coming from. The water jacket is high. Above the cylinders any way. It will float on oil and could have just been running out of the hole because of the oil level. Start with dropping the pan cover. That should give you a pretty good idea of what's next.
 
Pulling the inspection cover will certainly let you see what has happened.

Optomistically you may have burned a rod bearing out & the rod flailing away ripped up the cover & the pan, allowed the piston to pound on the head & either cracked the head or sprung some bolts to let the coolant out. The absence of pieces of rod showing in the holes may indicate that the rod is still attached to the crank shaft -- very loosely.

The bit of oil that would have been in the trough under the rod is likely on the road behind you somewhere. Once stopped the oil level would be below the hole & the antifreeze would run straight down. I have to disagree with Charlie in that antifreeze does not float on oil , unless you are using PCB oil. In that case sell the T & invest in medical insurance!
 
Sorry I wasn't clear but I did say it will float on oil. It's just possible a rod snapped along it's length with the cap still in place and the crank journal OK. Would account for no parts outside the motor. Seen this twice on other engines. Both broke at the wrist pin end. Looks totally catastrophic from the out side but is usually quite repairable. Pull the inspection cover first Vis. If this is what happened it's repairable in the car.
 
Well i went out to the shop this morning and pulled the inspection cover and found that the piston in the #3 hole is completely gone. the good news is that the cylinder looks good as new. the small end of the rod didn't even scratch it, like i said in my earlier post as soon as i heard it let loose i nosed it over and clicked it off.

When i pulled the cover off the crankcase i looked up in there with a flashlight and couldn't find any holes or cracks. so i went ahead and pulled the motor and looked it over carefully and still can't find anything wrong with the block, so i think you guys are correct in that it lifted the head slightly and pushed the cooland by the head gasket.

It's going to the machine shop tue morning and i'll have them check it out carefully. it's going to a place in NY called valve in block they specialize in Tand A motors the only bad thing is he said he wouldn't be abl;e to get to it till almost fall time as he's very busy. also while taking it apart i found that about 50% of the clutch band gone and the drum worn fairly bad.

Scott
 
Scott,

I will bet you have the old two piece valves in that engine.
One of the valve heads broke off and was jammed into the head by the piston that then blew apart.

Do you have a crack in the head on # 3?
Plus the rod went also without a lot of warning.

Good luck with it and let us know what you find.

Larry
 
The motor is the original out of my 26 tudor not sure if the valves are 2 piece but the valves look fine and the motor turnes over freely.
The conecting rod broke at the small end near the pin.as far as the head goes it apears fine to the naked eye.
It's amazing how clean it is inside, no sludge at all. i guess i'll have to wait and see what the machine shop says. but i'm really hoping that the block is ok.

Thanks
Scott
 
Scott,

That sounds like the rod alone then.
When you pull the engine down check the valves. If they have the two little holes on top for the oldfashioned valve grinder then they are most likely the old two piece valves. Check the Model T Club of America site forum and do a search for this problem several threads with photos.

I was hoping it was the head were the coolant was leaking if the head is OK then it has to be the block somewhere.

Good luck, let us know how you make out and post photos if you can.

Larry
 
Scott :
You may have gotten lucky and not have had any damage to the cylinder wall.
Now that the engine is out of the car I would get it thoroughly checked out.
I would discard the two piece valves and make sure to have all of the parts magnafluxed. The drums usually are bad if the engine has high miles on it or just wasn't taken care of.
You can see in the enclosed link the two piece valves with the two holes in them for the valve grinding tool.
Also you can see we resleeved this block in regards to your engine had the rod gone through the cylinder we could of fixed it this way.
Not to sound like a commercial but it takes us about 3-4 weeks to do a T.
http://www.jandm-machine.com/projects/canadian/projectsCanadianModelT.html
 
Clean shop. Appears to be a thorough & professional job all around. I can't help wondering what the job goes for.
 
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