Ed Saniewski
Well-known member
Hey Bill, if you are buying a new cutout you might want to look into one that is a voltage regulator and diode cutout.
Cut-out to Terminal Wire & Amp Mtr Issue
- Thread starter Bill O'Brien
- Start date
Bill O'Brien
Senior Member
great idea.... where would I buy one of those? Is the general consensus that I should get a new Cutout?
Thanks!!
Bill O'Brien
Senior Member
What could I do with my existing one to make sure the problem does not happen again? Would it require a tack weld???
Bill - You can find the regulated cutout at:
Fun Projects, Inc.
St. Charles, IL
www.funprojects.com
To fasten you cutout cover would only require a little dab of solder in two places 180-degrees from each other on the cover and base edges. You will have to use solder paste to get the solder to stick.
Fun Projects, Inc.
St. Charles, IL
www.funprojects.com
To fasten you cutout cover would only require a little dab of solder in two places 180-degrees from each other on the cover and base edges. You will have to use solder paste to get the solder to stick.
Last edited:
gweilbaker
Well-known member
Bill,
You said new wires, right? Did you take the terminal off? Is the terminal box a reproduction? If it is a reproduction, the terminal studs can back out causing them to short against the firewall.
Just something to think about,
GW
You said new wires, right? Did you take the terminal off? Is the terminal box a reproduction? If it is a reproduction, the terminal studs can back out causing them to short against the firewall.
Just something to think about,
GW
Bill O'Brien
Senior Member
What are the benefits of the 'regulaor' cutout??
http://www.funprojects.com/products/10505r.cfm
I do have a 6v system....
Thanks!!!
http://www.funprojects.com/products/10505r.cfm
I do have a 6v system....
Thanks!!!
Ed Saniewski
Well-known member
Bill, the EVR in the cutout will keep your battery fully charged. When you turn the headlights on it increases the output to keep up with the draw, then drops down when you turn the lights off. It will keep the battery from overcharging.
Bill - Both Ed and Dave are correct in their discriptions. One word of caution, your electrical system must be stock (no alternator, no halogen head lamps (halogen bulbs that are direct replacements in original reflectors are ok), or other accessories), and follow the instructions for the Fun Project EVR to the letter.
Also, Tom Wesenberg sells a good EVR too. Contact him for information.
Also, Tom Wesenberg sells a good EVR too. Contact him for information.
Bill O'Brien
Senior Member
Ok, all new Amp meter and cutout to terminal wire installed!! I also bought the Nu-rex semiconductor cutout from Snyders.
Now, I have a positive ground, I double checked. (Neg goes to starter and pos goes to trans) The cutout is for a positive system. It says so on the base of the unit. I hooked up the Gen side to the post on the generator and the Bat side to the wire coming off of the wiring harness....... the generator motored when I turned on the power!!! ?????? I dont get it! Help!!!
Now, I have a positive ground, I double checked. (Neg goes to starter and pos goes to trans) The cutout is for a positive system. It says so on the base of the unit. I hooked up the Gen side to the post on the generator and the Bat side to the wire coming off of the wiring harness....... the generator motored when I turned on the power!!! ?????? I dont get it! Help!!!
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
What do you mean by "when I turned on the power"? The model A has power on all the time, and the key only connects the points to the ground side of the coil. Or, do you have a battery disconnect?
The wire going to the cutout from the terminal box shoud be "hot" but the generator should bot motor, unless you are polarizing the generator by jumping across the two cutout terminals.
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
I use a 30 amp G.M. circuit breaker with ready made lead for it instead of glass fuse. It's 12 volt, but it doesn't matter, as the bi-metal strip that opens it is heated by current flow, not by voltage.
Bill O'Brien
Senior Member
I do have a battery disconnect. The instructions on my cutout say that you should install the cutout and if it runs like a motor than you have a negative ground system and need a negative ground cutout. But my positive cable goes to the transmission and my negative cable goes to the starter... ??? Thanks!!!
MrTube
Well-known member
My first step would be to throw an ohm meter across the diode in the cutout. If the diode is shorted (defective) or installed backwards it would cause this.
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
If you are positive that the battery + is grounded, then the diode cutout must be the wrong one and is made for a negative ground system.
Bill O'Brien
Senior Member
Ok... figured it out... I had the terminal wire hooked up to the 'Gen' side of the cutout and not to the 'Bat' side... will switch it tonight.....
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
Instead of a fuse, I use a 30 amp G.M. circuit breaker with ready made holder & wire on my 6 volt system. It is 12 volt breaker, but it is current flow, not voltage that heats bi-metal strip to open the breaker in the event of a short.Had the same trouble with mine when I got it and it was wired wrong, I would check the wiring diagram again and add a fuse to the feed wire coming off the starter if you don't have one already.
Bill williamson
Bill O'Brien
Senior Member
This was the amazing response when I inquired about Fun Projects VR:
We have all models of our Voltage Regualtors (VR) in stock. We make them for Model T , Model A, V8, and Ford Model N tractors. Original mechanical cutouts have contact points that when worn can stick closed or stick open. When they stick closed the battery is then permanently connected to the generator and attempts to spin it as a motor once the engine ignition is shut off. This will completely discharge the battery if you don't notice that this has happened and have just parked your Model A for the night. Soon after they begin to stick closed and ruin your battery they will stick open. When they stick open the generator is being spun up without any load on it when the engine is running.
Since the field winding is internally wired to the generator output via the 3rd brush, the absence of a load on the generator will allow the generator voltage output to rise which in turns increases the field winding current. This increased field winding current will increase the generator output still higher which will increase the field current still higher yet and the process keeps going with increasing runaway field current and runaway armature current which results in the generator burning its own field winding open or tossing solder out of the armature. This is what has destroyed the vast majority of the early 3rd brush generator as used on the T, A, V8, and N tractors.
When the cutouts go bad the generator and battery get damaged easily. The battery MUST be connected or the generator if spun up will destroy itself. The problem is that the mechanical cutout points simply eventually fail. This is why they are so nasty. Even a good cutout has one issue that hurts the battery and generator and that is that it has no means of sensing the current state of charge of the battery so the cutout based charging system simply charges the battery ANYTIME the engine is running. Whether the battery needs charging or not - it still charges and charges and chartes it.
Our VR looks exactly like a cutout on the outside but although you referred to it as a Voltage Regulator CUTOUT - it is NO such thing. It is a Voltage Regulator. It at all times monitors the battery voltage and regulates the charge which then shuts down the generator once the battery is fully charged. It has no contact points in it so it cannot go open and thus your generator cannot burn up.
Unlike a cutout which simply connects the generator to the battery and charges and charges and charges whenever the engine is running, the VR will only charge up the battery to completely full and then stop charging. This means your generator works a fraction of the time as compared to a cutout. The VR allows you to setup the generator to a high enough charge rate to run the lights at night yet will reduce the charge rate to near zero during the day. This is exactly the function of modern car voltage regulators on generator or alternator equipped modern cars.
Our VR will save your battery and your generator and allow you to drive your Model A with no further adjustment to the generator ever being required once the initial charge rate is set up. There are no modifications required nor recommended to your stock generator.
To date we have sold over 25,000 of them on T, A, V8, and N tractor but also have place our electronics in customer provided "cans" to replace cutouts on non Ford cars like Star, Whippet, Buick, Chevrolet, Dodge...over 100 non Ford regulators are also in the field. Our VR is NOT a cure for a sick electrical system. It needs a good stock generator, good wiring,good battery, and decent ammeter for it all to work right but our VR can be a wonderful addition to a good electrical system. Many of our customers have one on each of their Model A's.
We have all models of our Voltage Regualtors (VR) in stock. We make them for Model T , Model A, V8, and Ford Model N tractors. Original mechanical cutouts have contact points that when worn can stick closed or stick open. When they stick closed the battery is then permanently connected to the generator and attempts to spin it as a motor once the engine ignition is shut off. This will completely discharge the battery if you don't notice that this has happened and have just parked your Model A for the night. Soon after they begin to stick closed and ruin your battery they will stick open. When they stick open the generator is being spun up without any load on it when the engine is running.
Since the field winding is internally wired to the generator output via the 3rd brush, the absence of a load on the generator will allow the generator voltage output to rise which in turns increases the field winding current. This increased field winding current will increase the generator output still higher which will increase the field current still higher yet and the process keeps going with increasing runaway field current and runaway armature current which results in the generator burning its own field winding open or tossing solder out of the armature. This is what has destroyed the vast majority of the early 3rd brush generator as used on the T, A, V8, and N tractors.
When the cutouts go bad the generator and battery get damaged easily. The battery MUST be connected or the generator if spun up will destroy itself. The problem is that the mechanical cutout points simply eventually fail. This is why they are so nasty. Even a good cutout has one issue that hurts the battery and generator and that is that it has no means of sensing the current state of charge of the battery so the cutout based charging system simply charges the battery ANYTIME the engine is running. Whether the battery needs charging or not - it still charges and charges and chartes it.
Our VR looks exactly like a cutout on the outside but although you referred to it as a Voltage Regulator CUTOUT - it is NO such thing. It is a Voltage Regulator. It at all times monitors the battery voltage and regulates the charge which then shuts down the generator once the battery is fully charged. It has no contact points in it so it cannot go open and thus your generator cannot burn up.
Unlike a cutout which simply connects the generator to the battery and charges and charges and charges whenever the engine is running, the VR will only charge up the battery to completely full and then stop charging. This means your generator works a fraction of the time as compared to a cutout. The VR allows you to setup the generator to a high enough charge rate to run the lights at night yet will reduce the charge rate to near zero during the day. This is exactly the function of modern car voltage regulators on generator or alternator equipped modern cars.
Our VR will save your battery and your generator and allow you to drive your Model A with no further adjustment to the generator ever being required once the initial charge rate is set up. There are no modifications required nor recommended to your stock generator.
To date we have sold over 25,000 of them on T, A, V8, and N tractor but also have place our electronics in customer provided "cans" to replace cutouts on non Ford cars like Star, Whippet, Buick, Chevrolet, Dodge...over 100 non Ford regulators are also in the field. Our VR is NOT a cure for a sick electrical system. It needs a good stock generator, good wiring,good battery, and decent ammeter for it all to work right but our VR can be a wonderful addition to a good electrical system. Many of our customers have one on each of their Model A's.