Cracked front crossmember
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Fred K-OR
Well-known member
Watch on ebay or on this site in the swap meet section (above). But be sure it is for a 30-31 and not 28-29-they are different. Could advertise for one on this site also. Also Google "model a ford crossmenber" and you will get some listed. But also look out for "hot rod" type members. Good luck and it is good that you are replacing it.
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H. L. Chauvin
Well-known member
Makes a difference if the front member's crack is left to right or front to back.
Example:
1. You have two (2) No. 2 Pine 2x4's on edge spanning 6'-0".
2. According to engineered calculations, both can carry a load of 442 pounds placed and concentrated in the center.
3. With a circular saw you cut the bottom side of one 2x4, (marked A), longitudinally in the center, 1/8" wide x 1-3/4" deep x 6" long ........ now it can carry about 430 pounds. (Similar to a front member side to side crack).
4. Provide a transverse cut in the bottom center of the other 2x4, (marked B), 1/8" wide x 1-3/4" deep ...... now it can carry about 110 pounds. (Similar to a front member front to back crack).
Which direction is the crack ..... L to R ..... or Front to back??
Example:
1. You have two (2) No. 2 Pine 2x4's on edge spanning 6'-0".
2. According to engineered calculations, both can carry a load of 442 pounds placed and concentrated in the center.
3. With a circular saw you cut the bottom side of one 2x4, (marked A), longitudinally in the center, 1/8" wide x 1-3/4" deep x 6" long ........ now it can carry about 430 pounds. (Similar to a front member side to side crack).
4. Provide a transverse cut in the bottom center of the other 2x4, (marked B), 1/8" wide x 1-3/4" deep ...... now it can carry about 110 pounds. (Similar to a front member front to back crack).
Which direction is the crack ..... L to R ..... or Front to back??
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H. L. Chauvin
Well-known member
Usually this extreme stress placed on front, cross metal members occurred years ago while pounding metal far beyond the yield point when roads were substandard.
Front to back front cross member cracks are weaker and will continue to get worse more quickly.
Both reply no. 2 & 3 are really great & have merit ....... depending on whether you prefer to repair it ............ or buy another one and replace it ..... either way will work ..... replacing involves removing and replacing quite a few rivets ...... some front cross member rivets are a little difficult to reach.
An "experienced" and very competent welder who takes the time, can definitely weld it and make it look as good as new by grinding down the welds, & finishing & painting same.
If it makes any difference, my front cross member was similarly cracked ...... I welded it, finished it, and painted it ...... today's highways are far more "courteous" to Model A frames.
Hope this helps.
Front to back front cross member cracks are weaker and will continue to get worse more quickly.
Both reply no. 2 & 3 are really great & have merit ....... depending on whether you prefer to repair it ............ or buy another one and replace it ..... either way will work ..... replacing involves removing and replacing quite a few rivets ...... some front cross member rivets are a little difficult to reach.
An "experienced" and very competent welder who takes the time, can definitely weld it and make it look as good as new by grinding down the welds, & finishing & painting same.
If it makes any difference, my front cross member was similarly cracked ...... I welded it, finished it, and painted it ...... today's highways are far more "courteous" to Model A frames.
Hope this helps.
marc silva
Senior Member
Weld it up......drive it...not a big deal.
CWPASADENA
Well-known member
I agree,
"V" out the crack and get everything clean. Weld it and then I would suggest making a 1/8 - 3/16 thick reinforcement plate to go either underneath or over the top of the repair and weld it in place. You will not have a problem if the welding is done by a competent welder. Keep the "U" bolts TIGHT. Loose "U" bolts and rough roads is usually the cause of cracks in the cross members.
The key is a competent welder. I prefer TIG but a MIG or STICK welder will do a good repair if the person doing it knows what he is doing. It is very easy with MIG or STICK to blob a lot of weld on the repair and not get any penetration if the heat is not set right.
It is not easy to replace the cross member and get the rivets really tight. I would rather repair one that has a crack than replace it.
Again, this is JUST MY OPINION.
Chris W.
BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
Just weld it, even if you have to hire a portable arc welder Guy to do it. Keep it SIMPLE.
Bill Arc
Bill Arc
MatthiasMaier
New member
Hi guys,
I faced some serious issue with my 31‘s front Crossmember... It‘s badly cracked...obviously not for the first time as it shows some gas welding Marks already. Someone just welded the Cranach handle guide to the Crossmember. For reinforcement I assumed.No! Because the Crossmember underneath is literally gone/ cracked apart! No Chance for me to just V-notch and weld...there is nothing left to weld! I will have to replace that Crossmember... no repair possible while installed to the car. Luckily it has already been bolted in some decades ago. Question: is it possible to remove / install that Front Crossmember while the Engine is in place? Any chance? The rest of the car is very fine so I wanted to spend some days driving, now that 2019 season did not start too welk actually...
Thanks guys and greetings from Germany!
Matthias
I faced some serious issue with my 31‘s front Crossmember... It‘s badly cracked...obviously not for the first time as it shows some gas welding Marks already. Someone just welded the Cranach handle guide to the Crossmember. For reinforcement I assumed.No! Because the Crossmember underneath is literally gone/ cracked apart! No Chance for me to just V-notch and weld...there is nothing left to weld! I will have to replace that Crossmember... no repair possible while installed to the car. Luckily it has already been bolted in some decades ago. Question: is it possible to remove / install that Front Crossmember while the Engine is in place? Any chance? The rest of the car is very fine so I wanted to spend some days driving, now that 2019 season did not start too welk actually...
Thanks guys and greetings from Germany!
Matthias
Joe K
Well-known member
Certainly possible to remove if you have a way to support the engine. Either an overhead hoist, or possibly using a jack from underneath. One might even jack it up so the front wheels "just touch" since you'll be taking the axle out from underneath anyway.
I myself would favor an "overhead support" arrangement which does not have the possibility of denting the oil pan. A large strap around the engine might do this with less risk than my usual "Third spark plug hole" lifting eye (risk of tearing out the spark plug with the weight of half the car in addition to the weight of the engine.
Removal would be the easy part. Doubtless you will make some decisions regarding whether to weld that cross-member in, or go the traditional rivet route.
The problem with welding is one of welding "uphand" (i.e. rod above your holder/hand) for the welding on the underside - although the rest of the welding is pretty routine for someone skilled. And some welders PREFER uphand.
The problem with riveting is one of "bucking up" behind the rivets. Your backing bars might have less than optimal support unless you REALLY put some thought into it. Riveting a loose frame is challenge enough riveting only "downwards" with a couple of specialized backing bars supported by the concrete floor for the up force. Doing this "at angle" is nigh unto impossible.
Truthfully, if this car were mine, I would remove EVERYTHING and do the welding/riveting on the frame where I can rotate the frame and present the best possible situation. A lot is riding on optimal attachment.
Heh. This car IS mine - kind of. I have a loose frame upstairs which needs a REAR crossmember - which I have.
Joe K
whirnot
Well-known member
The correct term is welding "overhead"
MatthiasMaier
New member
I am just worried bout the clearance /space for removing that Crossmember with the engine still in place. Will it get its way past the oil pan? Providing good support for the engine seems no problem, i have plenty of equipment which could possibly be used for that job...
Matthias
Matthias
Joe K
Well-known member
This true - I did have "uphand" in mind when I made the comment (which implies fillet welding from bottom-up in a vertical direction) and would be done at least four places per side.
But "overhead" gets more to the difficulty levels involved. A careful balance of amperage, speed, and freeze/fill is required which only comes in practice.
I'm certainly not there and never will be.
Joe K
I would not remove the crossmember. I would fix it in place, if th crossmember is bad enough to replace the engine would need to come out. If your cross member is cracked at the spring plate this is a simple welding fix.
Keep it simple. Seems like you need someone schooled at welding to assist you with this which is my advice. Even if there’s a chunk missing which is probably NOT the case it can be fixed in place with a new metal.
The important point is to have a good fix with good penetrating welds and it is ground and finished smooth to the original profile as your spring must fit properly from underneath and the crank plate and u bolts on the top all correct.
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
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.Larry is correct, no need to remove the crossmember, and I think it would take a badly broken crossmember to require replacing. Otherwise just repair what you have. Here is a broken one we did awhile back that you can use for some inspiration as you make a plan to repair yours...
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.Larry is correct, no need to remove the crossmember, and I think it would take a badly broken crossmember to require replacing. Otherwise just repair what you have. Here is a broken one we did awhile back that you can use for some inspiration as you make a plan to repair yours...
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rotorwrench
Well-known member
There are those that have already cracked and those that will eventually. Ford should have issued a part number for the cracks.
Welding overhead is tricky. Speed counts on stick arc and wire speed and movement speed both count on MIG. A person has to settle for smaller beads and multiple passes to get good results. It's better left to the experienced welder. If V'd out enough, much of the welding can be done from the top side but it is still a challenge to the inexperienced welder. Stress relief after welding is a good idea.
Welding and riveting are a lot easier if the frame is bare and can be moved about. Bolts (with some being special flush types) can be utilized to install a cross member but they seldom stay tight. Any flex and movement tends to loosen bolted fasteners. Rivets expand into the holes well so they stay tight a lot longer. Many old bridges & buildings were constructed this way and it contributes to their longevity to a considerable degree.
Welding overhead is tricky. Speed counts on stick arc and wire speed and movement speed both count on MIG. A person has to settle for smaller beads and multiple passes to get good results. It's better left to the experienced welder. If V'd out enough, much of the welding can be done from the top side but it is still a challenge to the inexperienced welder. Stress relief after welding is a good idea.
Welding and riveting are a lot easier if the frame is bare and can be moved about. Bolts (with some being special flush types) can be utilized to install a cross member but they seldom stay tight. Any flex and movement tends to loosen bolted fasteners. Rivets expand into the holes well so they stay tight a lot longer. Many old bridges & buildings were constructed this way and it contributes to their longevity to a considerable degree.