couple newbe questions?

[big job]

A forum newbe yes, a T no. anyways I am now the proud owner of a new
23 Ford touring car. Straight as an arrow, motor apart and in pieces. Im an
old man that runs a machine shop. Comes with new fitted alum pistons and
new this and that, needs a couple valve seats (no problem) I posses all the
KR tooling. We do boring all kinds of machine work. OK, I come from the days
when Kelvar wasnt invented, the days when 50 miles without taking shims
out of rods side of road was common. Been out of it more than 50yrs. We
shall do the build, when done will be as quiet as a V8 flathead. Question, now
a days they run like the Interstate races across country with no problems.
Then we ran #50 even with stp oil. What about synthetic 20-50 Whats the
current trick? What do you people use. Myself I have never used synthetic
I use Napa 20 / 50 racing oil in everything, in my fleet of 53-56 F900 trucks.
Next would it be politically correct to paint engine (model A green)? I kind of
like that. I'll put a couple pics one me 16yrs old on the left with a 26 and
my buddy on the right and a F900 my father bought new. The truck is a
higher'd town truck. two trucks 54 900 and 53 900
thanks sam
Pics of my new Ford comming Sat. when we get it.

 

[redmodelt]

10-30 or 10-40 cheep detergent oil is ok. Synthetic is in my OP a waste of money as the T does not have a filter system so the oil has to be changed just as often. Black would be about as correct as you can get, I painted mine Ford green but it's your car, paint it what you want. Unless you are building a high compression, fully balanced, pressure oil feed, 21 inch wire wheels (for more foot print), 4 wheel brakes and updated steering, I would stay off the interstate.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Henry Ford almost had it right... "you can have it any color you want as long as its' yours". ws

 

[Steve Jelf]

Green if you want it, but original engine color for 1923 would be black. I use Rustoleum satin.

 

[big job]

Yes I know Steve, I could be just that I grew up with green trucks, my kid
even has green trucks. The engine as now is black and I dont know how the
previous owner did it but, he must have feather filled it or something, its
hard to describe "like a mirror". Its way way over kill looks more like a quality
show body finish (not cast iron). Only cause he gave me a qt. of Bill Hersh
"A" green.
Sam

 

[oldmotorsguy]

Engine paint:

Many folks do seem to like to paint these Model T engines black, since ol' Hank Ford kinda liked the stuff.

But I have it from on high from a Model T judge who found this in the judging book: Antique Ford green was the paint used on all Ford engines from 1926 through 1931: in other words, the 1926 and 1927 year Model T's (the 'improved Model T') had the green engine paint. All Model A's also had the same paint (virtually the only interchangeable part between the two engines, Model A and Model T besides a few bolts).

But NO PAINT at all was applied to blocks of Ford engines from 1909 through 1925. They came out of the factory the color of cast iron, which the blocks were made of. Since your car is a 1923, this too would have originally had no paint on the block. I like the looks of the 'cast iron' paint that NAPA sells, it shines the engine up nice, and retains the look of a fresh cast iron block, but you are straying from original by putting any paint at all on the engine. Me, personally, I would not gig you on it, paint it yellow if you like, but you asked about being politically correct, so I thought I would fill you in on the word of someone who knows his stuff (not me, the judge).

 

[big job]

Engine paint:

Many folks do seem to like to paint these Model T engines black, since ol' Hank Ford kinda liked the stuff.

But I have it from on high from a Model T judge who found this in the judging book: Antique Ford green was the paint used on all Ford engines from 1926 through 1931: in other words, the 1926 and 1927 year Model T's (the 'improved Model T') had the green engine paint. All Model A's also had the same paint (virtually the only interchangeable part between the two engines, Model A and Model T besides a few bolts).

But NO PAINT at all was applied to blocks of Ford engines from 1909 through 1925. They came out of the factory the color of cast iron, which the blocks were made of. Since your car is a 1923, this too would have originally had no paint on the block. I like the looks of the 'cast iron' paint that NAPA sells, it shines the engine up nice, and retains the look of a fresh cast iron block, but you are straying from original by putting any paint at all on the engine. Me, personally, I would not gig you on it, paint it yellow if you like, but you asked about being politically correct, so I thought I would fill you in on the word of someone who knows his stuff (not me, the judge).

Yep My cat is judge. I like green only cause the former owner gave my a
quart of model a green of course assesouries black. oh well. such is life!!

 

[Steve Jelf]

A long piece on engine painting by Trent Boggess is included in Bruce McCalley's Model T Encyclopedia. It begins:

Model T enthusiasts generally do not have quarrel- some dispositions, however it is not too difficult to start an all-night argument among them. Simply approach a representative group of Model T owners and pose the innocent question “What color should I paint my ’19 so and so Model T’s engine?” Then stand back and watch the fun! Some enthusiasts will strenuously argue that Model T engines were not painted at all. Others will respond with equal vigor “Oh yes they were!” Meanwhile a secondary skirmish will break out among the engine-painting advocates over the exact color the engines were painted. The debate will rage for hours!
The controversy over painting Model T engines has lasted for many years largely because the evidence to date has been inconclusive and contradictory. There are very few surviving original Model Ts with original factory-painted engines. Factory documentation of engine painting has also been scarce.

After an extensive review of the evidence, it concludes:

Not all motors were painted at Ford’s Highland Park factory. During the years between 1916 and 1920 most Model T engines were shipped to the branch assembly plants in an unpainted condition. At the assembly plants they were painted before final assembly into cars. This accounts for factory photographs showing both painted and unpainted motors at Highland Park.
After 1920, Highland Park, and later the Rouge, resumed painting motors before shipping them to the branches for final assembly. The color used until mid- 1926 was definitely black.
The 1927 engines were probably the ‘prettiest’ of the Model T motors. They were painted in black and moleskin (dark olive) pyroxylin paints and sported nickel plating on the cylinder head bolts, cap screws and the sparkplug caps, sparkplug wire terminals and the coil box terminals and nuts.

 

[1906 REO]

Hi Big Job; Lots has changed in the last 50 years, I too had a T in high school back then, and took up rods every weekend. Still building T's now. Depends on what you want to do with the car. SCAT makes counterbalanced forged crankshafts both in stock diameter, and also Model A stroke to accept Model A rods. They also make rods for Model A crank to T block, that use stock pistons. No modifications necessary for the A setup except to align bore the block and install a set of main caps, available from Dan Mc Eachern. Stock stroke requires no modification. These cranks really smoooth out a T. If you use Kevlar, use ONLY Nev-r-Wear, they are thin enough not to overheat the drums. Wood works great too. Use a turbo-400 or "Jackrabbit" clutch, and Tru-Fire drop in electronic ignition. Balance everything including the trans drums. All the above will give you a smooth and powerful T that's totally reliable, and its all undetectable from the outside. Synthetic oil is good BUT you don't want to use it until you have several thousand miles on the car or the rings won't seat. Nothing wrong with the old 20-50 either. I use that too.

 

[big job]

Hi Big Job; Lots has changed in the last 50 years, I too had a T in high school back then, and took up rods every weekend. Still building T's now. Depends on what you want to do with the car. SCAT makes counterbalanced forged crankshafts both in stock diameter, and also Model A stroke to accept Model A rods. They also make rods for Model A crank to T block, that use stock pistons. No modifications necessary for the A setup except to align bore the block and install a set of main caps, available from Dan Mc Eachern. Stock stroke requires no modification. These cranks really smoooth out a T. If you use Kevlar, use ONLY Nev-r-Wear, they are thin enough not to overheat the drums. Wood works great too. Use a turbo-400 or "Jackrabbit" clutch, and Tru-Fire drop in electronic ignition. Balance everything including the trans drums. All the above will give you a smooth and powerful T that's totally reliable, and its all undetectable from the outside. Synthetic oil is good BUT you don't want to use it until you have several thousand miles on the car or the rings won't seat. Nothing wrong with the old 20-50 either. I use that too.

Ya biggest problem is paying for the thing , my kid bought it now i gotta pay
him back.(somehow) anyways I all my bearings get a good to go but the
center one has a couple pock marks so I bought a new one. I bought shim
kit. What in hell, the shims all .026 what do I do with that. Spent all day with
one bearing got it a shade under .002 but its stiff. With a spy glass I can see
being shinny on each edge (the radi).,I had scrappers cant find them. Know what, its going to be a drill and burn it in. Only the edges I can see the marks
of the plasti-gage. Next problem end play. I was to counterbore the crank for
thrust rings, changed my mind. I need .017 stock and I found some. It will
have a top and bottom. I riveted upper and lower together and bolted it to the
rear cap with pal nuts. Now I get .004 end play . I dont think thats been done before, who knows, where can it go besides -nowhere. This idea came
from Detroit 71 diesels two thrust rings that are pinned to the caps, but they
are fat so you can pin them. Hard to pin .017 so I bolted them. My engine
build is not for nascar. Only a Briggs with 3 more holes

 

[redmodelt]

Unless it was pored differently, the rear bearing only has thrust on the cap. The thrust surface on the crank shaft flange has to be as smooth as the journal on the crank or it acts like a file and wears the babbett thrust down faster.