Could this be condenser ?

Dutie

Dutie

Senior Member
Had some running issues today after quite a few years motoring. She lost power after a stop for a few seconds.. after take off she started to stumble, a backfire and would not start. Got a tow, got her home, let it cool and still no start. Checked for spark and looked weak with thin white/orange spark so I replaced the coil along with the condenser from Brattons and she fired right up. After a few runs 2/3 miles ( did not want to go to far) and temps not exceeding 160 she run like a top. So today decided to take a longer ride to bring up to full running temp 180/190 and she started to lose power under load and some hills. My spark lever sweet spot is all the way down (fully advanced). Should I have a concern running too lean and could this new condenser have gone bad so soon. I am new to the A but am learning quick thanks to the help from this forum so any help is surely appreciated and sorry for the long story. Dutie
 
Tend to doubt it as I think all the new condensers that are sold by model A vendors are the burnout proof ones but yea could be. Could also be a coil going bad, heats up and starts to quit.

Running up a hill you should change the spark lever setting.

"When the engine is under a heavy load as in climbing steep hills,
driving through heavy sand, etc., the spark lever should be
retarded sufficiently to prevent a spark knock. "
 
If your setup is stock and timed properly your spark is too far advanced. You should retard your spark on steep hills. Your problem might be fuel delivery, but your new condenser could also be faulty. You should have your GAV about 1/4 open for most driving, except at higher altitudes. Also check your points; should be .020.
 
After you changed the coil and condenser, did you check for a good spark? Also you did get the polarity correct on the coil! Fiddling with spark advance and the GAV is good for troubleshooting :-) let us know what you find.
 
It's helpful to know what your running....IE

Wireless lower plate, modern or original points other modifications???
If you don't know I would suggest looking and diagnosing first... An inline spark tester is very helpful to see what going on when the engine is running...

Richening it with carb cleaner through the wiper port @ manifold is a way to see if it's fuel related when it's bogging

As mentioned your sweet spot should not be all the way advanced ....
 
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Sunday I just returned from a 4 day outing with our Model A club, and during the day trips a couple of modern top plate condensers went bad. On one the ignition would just give an occasional fire as he was cranking the engine. That car let out the loudest backfires I'd ever heard, and we were right in the middle of town. I thought for sure the cops would come rushing in to see who's firing the shotgun.

The sign of a failed condenser is a weak spark out the coil wire, and excess spark at the points contacts.
 
This should top things off. We rebuilt a 391 Ford Industrial and everything is genuine
new Ford parts. We ran it test stand maybe a minute. The distributor is also genuine
new with a governor. (This was around July '16) So we fire or try to fire it up. No
way, pull plugs pull valve covers comp.test all is happy. So last resort go to junk draw
& got any old used condenser >> 1/2 turn runs like my cat. ther ya go - one minute
run time new and junk. Maybe to box gives it away "Ford made in Mexico"
 
Tom Wesenberg said:
Sunday I just returned from a 4 day outing with our Model A club, and during the day trips a couple of modern top plate condensers went bad. On one the ignition would just give an occasional fire as he was cranking the engine. That car let out the loudest backfires I'd ever heard, and we were right in the middle of town. I thought for sure the cops would come rushing in to see who's firing the shotgun.

The sign of a failed condenser is a weak spark out the coil wire, and excess spark at the points contacts.
Click to expand...


The new condensers for the V8's are questionable. Go over to the Mustang sites and you see people having troubles with the new ones. They are made overseas and quality control is questionable. They are all done by low bid and no one really cares about quality control since they are not used a lot.

I strongly recommend the A&L burnout proof one that goes in the original spot. They are likely spending the extra dime to get the high quality capacitor to put inside that handles heat and vibration and has the chemicals made right.

Also remember, you do not need to change condensers or points on time. Replace them when they are bad. Which generally means if they were done right they could last your lifetime.
 
As parochial as this may appear, the best time to check any intermittent running engine for questionable "fuel" or questionable "electrical" problems is when it "refuses" to start.

1. How? ....... So simple for most vintage mechanics years ago.

2. Fuel Check: Pull out choke, crank, immediately remove plugs ...... wet gas smelling plugs, "usually" not a fuel problem.

3. Electrical Check: Now, with plugs out, crank, good spark at plugs, "usually" not an electrical problem.

4. Or, spend 3 weeks changing out everything from your radiator to your muffler until you get suicidal ............ finally, visit a psychiatrist who recommends calling a vintage Model A mechanic to logically try the simple 50/50 tests, i.e., 1. through 3. above.
 
A common mistake is to set the fuel line TOO DEEP, into the carb. Also, the fuel filter in the top of the carb, is often FORGOTTEN!
Bill W.
 
Mike V. Florida said:
Tend to doubt it as I think all the new condensers that are sold by model A vendors are the burnout proof ones but yea could be. ....."
This last winter I finished restoring our 1931 A pick up including installing a new condenser. The new condenser from Mac's as it turned out was a bad one. Curt Cummings, a good friend of mine, also finished restoring a 1931 slant window Fordor. Curt also had the same failure with his new condenser. In both cases, when cold, the model A Fords started, but as soon as the condensers got warm, the engines stalled out. There is a bad batch of condensers out there.
Click to expand...
 
A quick reply to (could be bad condenser). Ray/700 and Eagle was spot on with check the points. So simple and so easy...yes the points were way off and barely opening. After inspection showed the fixed adjustable point block was as loose as a goose and the small lock screw on top was also as loose and allowing the point screw to be easily turned with my fingers. Also further inspection showed the top plate had a lot of wiggle when advancing or retarding showing about 50 thousands when pushed to one side also allowing the points to almost close the gap of 20 thousands. Have a new upper plate and condenser from Brattons coming soon with new points. Many thanks to all the replies and will certainly keep yas up to date. Thanks again, Dutie NOTE: I am running a stock A with orig. dizzy
 
From what you described, my first thought was that the points are too close. I have original style points and a Model B distributor cam. I log a lot of miles and find I have to adjust mine about twice a year.

Ken
 
h. L. Chauvin said:
as parochial as this may appear, the best time to check any intermittent running engine for questionable "fuel" or questionable "electrical" problems is when it "refuses" to start.

1. How? ....... So simple for most vintage mechanics years ago.

2. Fuel check: Pull out choke, crank, immediately remove plugs ...... Wet gas smelling plugs, "usually" not a fuel problem.

3. Electrical check: Now, with plugs out, crank, good spark at plugs, "usually" not an electrical problem.

4. or, spend 3 weeks changing out everything from your radiator to your muffler until you get suicidal ............ Finally, visit a psychiatrist who recommends calling a vintage model a mechanic to logically try the simple 50/50 tests, i.e., 1. Through 3. Above.
Click to expand...

amen!!! Troubleshoot before shotgunning parts. It only introduces more problems
 
Replies to/ Could this be condenser... Was not the condenser after all it was the point block being so loose. Bent the block just enough to keep the block nice and tight today and installed a new set of points I was saving until my new upper plate arrives from Brattons. I have also reset the timing...Big Big improvement when its right... can do it now without the book, just hope I can remember.. I will have to write it down. Many thanks to all who have replied, with so many expert minds on this I knew it was not going to be so bad..now I can take it to church, the pastor just loves this old car. Thanks again DUTIE
 
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