Copper head gaskets or composit

Don

Don

Well-known member
Removed the elderbrock heads from a post war engine and there was some white {electrois i guess} material around the water holes, no damage was done to the heads,but the possibility was there . Had copper head gaskets . Should i use the composit type to eliminate this white build up?.also this # was on the intake platform area sos-189623.ill does it mean anything? Dp.
 
I believe the copper gaskets act like a battery and react with the aluminum heads. I had sever corrosion after only a couple of years. The engine always had good antifreze in it so the copper is my conclusion. I am going to use the graphite gaskets.
 
I would tend to blame the use of water instead of antifreeze over the years. I used copper head gaskets with no issues on steel heads.
 
Composite head gaskets were designed to deal with the different expansion rates between cast iron blocks and aluminum heads (just like you flathead). Edelbrock recommends Felpro composite gaskets with their new aluminum heads. All modern manufacturer use composite gaskets. I would take any old copper head gaskets you have to a metal recycler and put the money towards modern composite gaskets. The only way I would use copper gaskets is if I was doing a historically correct restoration on a vintage car.
Do not put any kind of sealer on Felpro composite gaskets, they come with sealer on them that reacts once it gets hot.
 
LOL, no copper gaskets for you? eveidently you havent spent hours scraping the composition gasket off an engine block with head studs ,and bandaged 7 or 8 skinned or busted knuckles, copper gasket are xlnt, just dont use with aluminum heads
 
Copper is pretty much the norm nowadays!

Use them on all performance "Flatties", no issues so far! We use the "Copper-Spray" sealer on them!

With respect to the anti-freeze issue, this has been a problem for some years now. When using aluminum components you MUST maintain the proper 50/50 mix in order to prevent "electrolysis" from occurring! And ALL "electrical-grounds" must be in good shape also. Stay away from the new "red/pink" anti-freeze!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The 50/50 "mix" issue was the main reason back in the early '70's that the "Vega" blocks were disintegrating. If you recall, these blocks had no sleeves and the "tin-plated" pistons ran directly on the "silicon" bores! Most people over time ignored the "mix" warnings! Most of these 140" rebuilds ended up being "sleeved" in the end!
 
Don,
I will go with Flathead Fever. I prefer BEST gaskets from
Mac Van Pelt. A question such as yours will yield answers from the
different experiences we've all had. The composite gasket has always
worked best for me with aluminum heads because of its ability to yield
when 'living' with dis-similar metals.
Charlie ny
 
For my 60 hp aluminum heads. I coat the head gaskets with a thin film of wheel bearing grease. Seems to help while torquing down heads and they are easier to remove the heads later.
 
Aluminum is inherently more reactive toward water than most other conductive materials commonly used in gaskets, including unprotected graphite. While the resistance of aluminum's natural protective oxide layer to water penetration can certainly be enhanced by anodizing, coatings or anti-freeze additives, water will eventually reach and corrode the underlying metal surface that's continually exposed to an aqueous liquid. Unfortunately, this corrosion can be electrochemically promoted/catalyzed in the presence of oxygen and other metals including graphite. So composite gaskets seem to make the most sense for aluminum heads when trying to reduce this 'battery' effect. As noted by 3738 above, I too slather a fairly thick layer of grease on all surfaces before assembly. I also recommend cleaning and generously lubing all threads, torque and re-torque often till torque readings remain constant.

Jack E/NJ
 
So why do best gasket say spray composite gaskets with copper spray? ​

Lifted from their site...​

2) GraphTite™ (suffix of “G”) – consists of Kevlar reinforced graphite facing material mechanically bonded to both sides of a perforated steel core. This modern
GTHG%20hk%203rd.jpg
engineered, high-performance material is rated to a temperature of 1400 degrees-F. Steel fire rings are installed in the combustion chamber areas of the gasket. ​



GraphTite™ head gaskets have superb sealing characteristics, excellent torque retention, and hold up to the punishment dished out by high-performance engines – high quality all the way. This gasket might be overkill for cruiser engines, but so what . . extra performance never hurts!​


Install GraphTite™ head gaskets using using a spray-on sealant like K & W Copper Coat or Permatex Copper Spray-A-Gasket. Always re-torque, no short-cuts.​
 
LOL, i think because they have had to remove a few gaskets that werent sprayed with a release agent, scrape off one of those stuck gaskets around head studs and you will see why you should should spray them with something
 
In my humble opinion, having a blown (5psi) 296" well worked flathead for 25000 miles, the Best Grahtite head gaskets have worked flawless. As for the comments on scraping the surface difficulties when you have to remove the heads, well, that is just part of a rebuild. At 66 years of age, I don,t expect to do any more work on this engine outside of regular maintenance..Burns no oil, compression 140 on all cylinders, no overheat conditions..Bydaway, it waS DYNOED at 267 HP..
 
Gary wrote>>>So why do best gasket say spray composite gaskets with copper spray?>>>

Copper sprays usually aren't very conductive as thin films, the copper particles probably being encased in polymer. While Ford1 may be correct that copper films act as release agents as well as sealers, they don't release nearly as well as grease or single purpose releases.

As for GraphTite gaskets, I'm not sure if they are conductive. Probably could test them with a good ohm-meter. If they are significantly conductive, there is the possibility of electrochemically-induced aluminum corrosion.

Jack E/NJ
 
Sorry, forgot to mention I did spray the Best Graphtite head gaskets with copper spray..Spray one coat and let it harden, spray the second coat and install heads..Bydaway, I am a strong believer in head studs. I used Flathead Jacks head studs..No doubt, when it does come time to remove the heads, it will be more difficult...Like I said, the only one taking the heads off will be my son when he inherits my 33 roadster and 34 coupe..
 
What about cathodic protection. They sell kits for aluminum heads on cast iron blocks. They provide a sacrificial electrode.
 
Aluminum and copper are almost at the opposite ends of the galvanic series this series lists major metals from the most noble to the least if you put metals ie.copper and aluminum from the opposite ends of the series into an electrolite,(water), you make a battery.metal will transfer from the least noble ,aluminum to the most. kind of like plating.I ran water in my flathead for a month when I first put it together, just to be sure everything was going to work. One morning I tried to start it, it was locked up. pulled the plugs, one cylinder was full of water. Had composite gaskets but rings around water holes were copper sure enough big old hole inthe head! welded i up put in new gaskets with no copper, filled system with proper antifreeze mix, last but not least I screwed a pencil zinc (sacrifical anode) into an unused port in the head. Been six years and 10,000 miles no problems!
 
The reason why the composit gaskets are hard to get off and you must scrape off the residue is bacause they are doing what they are designed to do stick!! Felpro works for me. JMHO
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top