Cooling System Problem Up-Date

Ray A from PA

Ray A from PA

Senior Member
Drained anti-freeze from system, flushed and then: 1. added 4 cups of Simple Green and filled system. Ran engine for 10 min. then drove car. Temp 190 inside gauge, 180 inside top of radiator. 2. Drained and flushed system then filled and repeated running and driving car, 190 inside, 180 at radiator. 3. Drained and flushed system added Prestone Super Flush and filled system. repeated running car, 190 inside, 180 at radiator top. 4. Drained and flushed took out thermostat, filled and ran car. 190 inside, 180 at radiator. By this time the drained liquid is as clean and clear as what I put in.
From where I see it - 2 options, radiator or something else making engine run hot. Welcome your opinion.
 

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I have the same sort of trouble with my 1930 pickup. I drive it about 10 miles and the radiator temp is 190 at the top inside and 150 at the bottom. It eventually overheats and blows antifreeze all over the place, even though I'm driving on flat land. A friend of mine uses 10 percent muriatic acid in the radiators of 18 wheelers to clean the copper core. He adds the acid and runs the engine for ten minutes and watches the temperature at different points on the radiator using a pyrometer. I'm too chicken to do it but wonder if anyone else has had a similar problem.
 
Don't run antifreeze in the summer. It does not absorb as much heat per ounce as water. Think back to your high school chem class and the unit on specific heat. Remember all those equations we had to solve with delta T and calories and all that? Water always had a higher specific heat than most other liquids, particularly alcohols. Today's antifreeze is designed for use in pressurized systems where the boiling point is much higher than water and specific heat values don't matter so much. The Model A cooling system was designed under the assumption that water would be used in the summer months. A 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze just can't transfer enough heat. Maybe a chemistry teacher can help us out here.
 
Paul I had the same problem a couple of years ago,tried everything. Bottom line tubes were plugged, bought a new radiator. What a big deference.The car ran so cool I had to put in a thermostat. You can try plain water and add "Water Wetter".But be prepared for the worse.
 
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Used Les Andrews Flow Test - my radiator holds 1 1/2 cups less than 1 1/2 gal. water. The return pipe empties the radiator completely in 3 1/2 seconds, so it appears I can almost rule out radiator problems. Fan belt adj. next, timing will be rechecked and I am positive the gas mixture is not too rich. The car has less than 100 miles on engine complete engine overhaul. Is there something I am overlooking? I sure hope it's not a head gasket.
 
Ray. with only 100 miles on a new engine BINGO. Still a lot of friction going on and friction= heat. Don't trust the tennis ball drain test either. False security for sure. I went through the same scenario with a fresh engine rebuild. After practicing every four letter combination imaginable I bought a new brass works radiator and that solved the problem. In my case the culprit was the cooling fins had separated from the tubes and could no longer "radiate".:rolleyes:
 
Bob A. said:
Paul I had the same problem a couple of years ago,tried everything. Bottom line tubes were plugged, bought a new radiator. What a big deference.The car ran so cool I had to put in a thermostat. You can try plain water and add "Water Wetter".But be prepared for the worse.
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Good point. Plugged tubes are a likely culprit. I just always start with the cheapest repair first and hope for the best. In this case, I felt exchanging water for anti-freeze was a cheap and easy fix worth trying before going more costly and difficult routes. I've heard good things about "Water Wetter" but have had great results so far with plain water. First thing I do when I buy an old car is to take the radiator out and bring it down to the radiator shop. They hardly charge anything to boil it out, straighten fins, solder leaks, pressure test it and paint it. While it's at the shop, I flush the block and head thoroughly. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!
 
Ray A from PA said:
Drained anti-freeze from system, flushed and then: 1. added 4 cups of Simple Green and filled system. Ran engine for 10 min. then drove car. Temp 190 inside gauge, 180 inside top of radiator. 2. Drained and flushed system then filled and repeated running and driving car, 190 inside, 180 at radiator.
From where I see it - 2 options, radiator or something else making engine run hot. Welcome your opinion.
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Ray...what is wrong with 180 degrees, that is not event the boiling point? Fill me in here or am i missing something
Mark:confused:
 
msmaron said:
Ray...what is wrong with 180 degrees, that is not event the boiling point? Fill me in here or am i missing something
Mark:confused:
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Another good point! My T runs as hot as that and never boils over. Thanks for pointing out the obvious to us, Mark. I am embarrassed that I missed that!
 
Paul from Maine said:
Another good point! My T runs as hot as that and never boils over. Thanks for pointing out the obvious to us, Mark. I am embarrassed that I missed that!
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I have been having a terrible overflow problem is you had seen some old posts. First thing was to remove the radiator and have it flow checked and cleaned and dipped. What we found was the lower tubes were LOADED with crap, a lot of old radiator stop leak etc. Had that cleaned and then i learned, LET THE RADIATOR SEAK ITS OWN LEVEL and stop forcing the water into it! That is what also made a difference, Put on a clean original radiator, I also have done the temp tests and i run on a hot day at approx 187 top temp and i take it on head to get an accurate reading, I have run at 197 and still not a boiling point.
So when you were saying that you are running at 180 i was a little surprised at the concern. I am running NOW at 178 and happy as a clam.
Good luck
 
Does your radiator have a baffel? Most new owners tend to overfill the radiator. The water should just cover the top of the tubes and not filled to the top.
 
TinCup said:
Does your radiator have a baffel? Most new owners tend to overfill the radiator. The water should just cover the top of the tubes and not filled to the top.
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Goes back to what i was saying.... Let is seak its own level
 
My incar temp gauge off the head outlet indicates average operating temp to be greater than 140 and less than 190, mine reads 190 - 195.
My radiator has a baffle and overflow tube that are correctly placed. The top of radiator (inside water temp) at the same time is 182.
Is this the norm for A's? If so I don't have a heating problem. But I question this!
 
A new motor does tend to run hot . Certainly mine all have .Once they run in the temperature drops. In one of mine there is water always visable above the baffle when you look down into the radiator the other only gets water visable when its hot . Neither overheat. I don't run antifreeze because its not necesssary in my temperate climate but also because it decreases the effectiveness of the system . Also many people don't realise that if you get the mix wrong with ethylene glycol mixtures you can actually accelerate corrosion.
 
Hi Ray, I had overheating problems with my 30 Tudor & picked a radiator on E-Bay & then had local radiator shop inspect & correct some minor problems before I installed it & I ended up needing to put a 180 thermostat in because it ran too cool. (below 160* even with a 50/50 antifreeze mix) I am also from Western PA (Johnstown area) so I am also dealing with the hills that you have as well. I would not be concerned with temps in the 190* range, if it runs much cooler you will likely have carbon build up issues. Good luck, Joe
 
FORDBARNERS . . . . . . . . . .
A cheap and easy to do, radiator clean up, is to run straight white vinegar in your radiator for a couple of weeks. It is a mild acid and will disolve a lot of mud, rust and "crap" that is stuck in your cooling system. The E.P.A. has mandated commercial radiator to be so weak, that it is almost useless nowdays.
Vinegar will not hurt the environment.
MIKE :)
 
I totally agree with what Mark said about letting the water "Seek its own level." I was constantly losing water and having heating problems when I overfilled the radiator. Then one of my friends told me about the "siphon" affect I was creating and
now I am only adding a little water every few months. The last time I added water was back in July of last year and I run a consistent 175-180 all day long. I use strictly water and no thermostat. I check my radiator at night with a flashlight and look for a sign of water just above the fins. It's easier to see with a light at night, and as long as I can see ANY sign of water, it's good to go. By the way, my car is driven every day, 12 months of the year.

Jim
 
Thanks to all for all your great comments and advice. It is GREAT to have a place like this to exchange ideas and continue to grow in the Model A way. I hope my comments and questions achieved their purpose to make all of us just a bit more aware of the Model A life. Education is fun esp. when you learn something. Ray
 

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Ray,

Beautiful car !

As long as you're not boiling-over and losing coolant, you should be okay.

ANY fresh engine is tight, and tends to run a little warm until broken-in.

Drive it sensibly, and keep an eye on coolant level and engine temp; a steady running temp of 180-190 is still reasonable... be alert for a sudden rise in temp (that stays high), THAT would be a sign of trouble.

When you get to 500 - 1000 miles on that new engine, if the temp is still running high, might be time to pull the radiator and look for blocked tubes / loose fins.

Just for yuks, you might want to check your timing - running retarded will make it run hotter.

When auto makers went to pressurized cooling systems in the late '40s - early '50s, they started around 4 pounds, which raised the boiling point to about 220*; by the 1960's, we were up to 14-15 pounds, which raises the boiling point to about 242* ( at sea-level ).

180-190 is still safe; 200* or above would have me worried.

Good luck !

SC Frank
 
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