Cool Tips for Hot Trips

Old Henry

Well-known member
This weekend we (wife, dog, me) did an overnight road trip that went from 101 deg. at 5,000 feet to 71 deg. at 10,000 feet. Learned some stuff about driving flatheads in heat. Here's what I learned:

Tailwind = hot. Started out going north on the freeway. Was cruising along nice, seemed more quiet than usual but my feet were getting hot, looked down at the temp guage and it was pegged past "H" and I wondered, "What the . . . ?"

Then I looked up at the thermometer above the rear view mirror and it was 101 deg!

I knew it was a hot day but that was hotter than I expected.

I wondered why every thing was so hot until I turned to go west and had the wind come in my window at me and the temperature dropped a little. Then I looked at all of the trees along the road and we had been going with the wind that reduced the air going into the radiator enough to cause the engine to get a lot hotter than I expected.

"H" doesn't mean the water's about to boil. We were taking the same trip we took 4 years ago to Bear Lake in northern Utah. On that trip when the temperature gauge hit "H" I panicked and pulled off the road at the nearest source of water to cool the engine down. Since then, I've learned a lot about engine temperatures, water temperatures, boiling temperatures, and pressure such that I was quite confident that the water would not boil out even though the gauge was pegged past "H". It pretty much stayed pegged past "H" for the next couple of hours until we climbed to a higher and cooler elevation. When we stopped for gas I measured the temperature of the top of the radiator (best indicator of coolant temperature) and it was only 202 deg. Nothing near the 222 deg. it would take to boil the water out at my elevation with a stock 4# radiator cap.

When the water coming out of the top of the engine was 202 deg. the heads were hotter - 210 on the left

and 215 on the right.

But those head temperatures didn't matter so much as the water temperature since that's what we gotta keep from boiling out.

"H" does mean the gas will boil. Although the water never boiled out with the gauge on "H", as soon as it hit that temperature the gasoline vaporized in the fuel pump and it quit pumping the gas. I'd had enough bad experience with such "vapor lock" to have installed a backup electric fuel pump back by the gas tank that I just switched on and carried on.

Stop lights mean vapor lock. When my temperature gauge got down below "H" I could switch off the electic pump until I came to a stop light or turned the engine off for a few minutes. Then, with no air moving through the engine compartment the gas in the mechanical pump would quickly boil and I'd have to turn the electric pump on just until I got moving again when I could turn it off.

Moving air does not cool dry surfaces, especially hot air. When it was 101 deg. outside (and inside) I tried for a while to cool off by directing the outside air directly on me by turning the vent window all the way in. After a while I realized that it was not working. The air was so hot coming in that it kept my skin totally dry such that there was no evaporation and no cooling. The hot air blowing on me was just making me hotter, not cooling me down. I was cooler when I shut the window until I was sweating just a little then letting just a little air in to blow on me and cool me down. The breaking point seemed to be at about 90 deg. Air blowing in below 90 seemed to cool me but air blowing in above 90 just dried me out and heated me up more than cooled me down. I had the thought toward the end of the trip that a spray bottle with water in it would have come in real handy to spray on us to help keep us cool. Maybe next time.

Less is more (air, that is). Relative to the previous point, when I realized that the blast of hot air coming in my vent window was too much, I turned the vent window from the other side in to direct air on me that worked much better at a lower volume because it was just the right amount to let me perspire just enough that the moving air cooled me down.

Keep your feet back. I mentioned that my feet were getting hot at the beginning of the trip. Here's why. The angled part of the floor was 117 deg!

So, I drove most of the way using the throttle knob to control the gas so that I could keep my feet back by the seat and off of the hot floor. (I have insulation under my floor mat. It would have been even hotter without that.)

Wear gloves. I usually wear gloves to drive anyway because it gives me better traction on the steering wheel, pads my left hand that's usually on the suicide knob base, and looks cool. But, on this hot trip the gloves were even more important because the steering wheel got so hot. The horn button was 103 deg!

I think that was a little hotter than the steering wheel itself because the bottom end of the steering column gets heated up in the engine compartment and transfers that heat up to the wheel hub.

Even the dash board that wasn't even in the sun was 106 deg!

Slower is cooler. On the last leg of our trip I got behind a motor home that was only going 55 instead of the 65 I had been holding. I decided to stay behind him since I was in no hurry. I noticed that after not very long my temperature gauge dropped noticeabley, probably down into the 180 deg. range, at the lower speed. When I finally got tired of that speed and passed him and went back up to 65 the gauge pegged past "H" again.

You might ask, "Why don't you get one of those swamp coolers that hang out the window?" Here's my answer to that. I have had quite a bit of experience with those and this is what I learned:

We used one for years in our first car - a VW Bug. It worked great for two reasons: 1. It was a very small space to cool, and 2. The car was airtight such that with just a vent window cracked open a vacuum was created that sucked the cold air in the through the cooler and cooled the whole car very nicely. We used it in mid-summer trips through southern Arizona and Mexico very comfortably.

But, then, we got a bigger car - an old Jeep Wagoneer. Maybe one of the funnest cars we ever had, but no A/C. So, we tried the swamp cooler with it. Didn't work for both of those reasons: 1. The space to be cooled was too big. 2. The vehicle was not air tight enough so that when a vent window was open creating a vacuum, hot air came in all of the holes and cracks and cancelled out most of the cool air.

I figure my big old Fordor Sedan would be much more like the Wagoneer than the Bug. It has a lot of space in it and it is no-where nears air tight. I know because when I get too hot in the winter I just crack the vent window open and can feel cold air coming in around the doors and around the back seat from the trunk.

Plus, gotta lay out around 600 smackers for one of those swamp coolers now. Not worth it.

When I was a kid we used to drive 'cross country in the hot summer from Utah where we lived to southern Arkansas where my mother was from without any A/C and just the windows open. I still have some flash backs of those great times when I'm driving "Old Henry" on a road trip in the really hot summer. So, that's why I do it. It takes some effort to constantly be adjusting the throttle, the fuel pump switch, the cowl vent, the roll up and vent windows, and drinking lots of water to replace what I lose. But, all in all, it must be worth it because I keep doing it.

Now the cool part: Heading up to Bear Lake we climbed 3,000 feet and, of course, as we went up it got cooler and cooler until it was down to about 75 deg. That, of course, was a perfect temperature to be cruising along up the green canyon by the river until we went over a pass at 8,000 feet and reached Bear Lake at 6,000 feet.

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At the southern end of Bear Lake is a little town called Lake Town, pop. 187, that has this great old vintage service station still in operation.

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Then we headed south east and came to the little town of Randolph, Utah , (pop. 476) where all of the record low temperatures for Utah are recorded in the winter, and we spotted this little store that claimed to be "The Smallest Store in Utah."

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It was run by a man from Salt Lake City that brought his family up in the summer to run it.

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They spent the summer living in what that claimed was the smallest house in Utah behind the store.

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From Randolph we went south to Woodruff, Utah, (pop. 184) that was having a car show then turned west to go back over the mountain pass over 9,000 feet before descending back into Salt Lake Valley where the temperature was, again, over 100 deg. for the ride home.
 
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Henry, Your interior temp recordings are interesting, and they certainly do confirm the value of the cowl vent!
Thanks for the tour!
 
The interior of the car don't get very hot if the engine runs at 180. When the engine is up in the 200 range or higher the hood gets very hot which heats the air comming in the vent hotter than the outside air that is supposed to cool the interior. The hotter engine compartment also heats the firewall and floor soaking through into the cabin. Also when the engine runs hot the oil gets thinner getting black and also uses more oil than at 180. Taking the temperarure at the top of the radiator tank is useless. There is no water at the top of the radiator and most people don't fill the radiator up to the filler neck like it should be, the capacity is 22 quarts not 17 or 18. Being low on water causes higher temperatures. A good working 4 lb pressure cap or Skips 3 lb pressure valve on radiators with the over flow comming off the top of the tank is required to keep all of the water or coolant in the system. When the temperature on an original 32 to 48 car gets to 200 degrees driving down the road above 30 MPH your in trouble. Skips high volume water pumps which almost doubles the amount of coolant through the system along with his valve or pressure cap is the fastest and least expensive way to improve cooling in the range of 25 degrees. G.M.
 
Taking the temperarure at the top of the radiator tank is useless. There is no water at the top of the radiator.

With all due respect, I beg to differ. The sides of the top tank of the radiator (as pictured in my post - not the top surface in case there is some air there) is the best place to measure the temperature of the water at its hottest as it has just come out of the top of the engine and does not cool perceptibly traveling through the hoses from the top of the engine to the radiator. My radiator was topped off as I left on my trip. I have actually done live tests with the radiator clear full up to the top of the cap, engine warmed up enough for the thermostats to open and circulate the water through the engine and radiator. Then had a thermometer in the top of the radiator (with the cap off) and compared that with the temperature of the surface of the top of the radiator - identical. There is no better place to measure the temperature of the coolant at its hottest. Measuring the metal surfaces of the heads or other parts of the engine is not the same as measuring the temperature of the water inside which is what is most critical since that is what we've got to keep below boiling temperature. As shown in my readings, the surface of the heads were 8-13 deg. hotter than the water inside of them. The water inside of the engine will always be cooler than the outside engine surfaces if it is circulating though the engine and radiator because it goes into the bottom of the engine much cooler and picks up heat as it travels up through the engine but never reaching the same temperature as the engine when it leaves the top. The only exception, of course, would be if the water was not circulating, as when the thermostats are closed, then it is the same temperature. :)
 
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The interior of the car don't get very hot if the engine runs at 180. G.M.

Without some kind of cooling system like A/C or a swamp cooler, the interior of the car can not be any cooler than the ambient temperature of the air outside of the car as was the case on my trip. The inside air temperature was identical to the outside air temperature since outside air was the only thing we had to bring inside. :rolleyes:

As ford38v8 said, that is why the cowl vent is so critical to dissapate some of the heat off of the inside of the firewall and floor. Without that, our legs and feet would have been intolerably hot.

Furthermore, the heat on the firewall does not come from the heat of the engine itself. There is no physical connection between the engine and the firewall. The firewall heat comes from the heat transferred from the engine to the air by the radiator then blown back against the firewall. So, the more heat transferred from the engine to the air flowing through the radiator to keep the engine cooler, the hotter the air blowing out of the radiator, past the engine, and against the firewall to heat it up even more. Capish? The bottom line is: the engine compartment is a closed system and gets heat from the engine radiating it and the radiator transferring it to the air. That amount of heat is constant varying only with the drag on the engine. The only other variable is the temperature and amount of the air going into the radiator. The cooler that air and/or higher its volume, the cooler the entire engine compartment will be. The hotter that air and/or lower its volume, the hotter it will be and, consequently, the hotter the firewall.

G.M. I'd be interested in your readings of the inside of the firewall and floor on a trip of 100+ outside ambient temperature. My wager would be that your readings would be the same as mine regardless of the efficiency of your cooling system. Got any actual readings of such on a trip like mine to compare?
 
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Old Henry..there is a guy in Ca. that sells a homemade ice chest air cond. the blower motor & housing from 50-51 Fords works perfect for his setup. ( no I do not own one of these coolers ) here is a you tube showing a similar set up, but not the same as the Ca. swap meet guy.

http://youtu.be/xRXCdy05bJs
 
Old Henry..there is a guy in Ca. that sells a homemade ice chest air cond. the blower motor & housing from 50-51 Fords works perfect for his setup. ( no I do not own one of these coolers ) here is a you tube showing a similar set up, but not the same as the Ca. swap meet guy.

http://youtu.be/xRXCdy05bJs

On one of our summer cross country trips as a kid we had a swamp cooler that sat on the front floor that we put water and ice in. It put out a miniscule amount of cool and damp air but was, for the most part, woefully inadequate.
 
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The firewall on both the driver and passenger sides get in the range of 130 to 135 when it's in the 90's. You can't compare a 39 to a 47 as far as heat build up at the rear of the engine. The fan on a 39 throws it's air against the front of the engine and I would say most exits along the frame and inner fender panels and the drip pans. The 47 type has a higher mounted fan similar to a generator mounted fan that directs air over the engine. The firewall heat comes from the exhaust, intake manifolds and the rear of the heads. On the 39 and 40 modles there is no place for the riseing hot air to excape and measures 130 to 135 AFTER the hood is opened, this may be hotter when ALL the air is trapped. I run 180 down here when it's 95 + outside. This 180 is with 180 stats and would be lower without stats. These stats are made by gadgiteer@aol.com and have large flow openings almost as large as the 1 3/4" ID of the hoses. Modern stats all reduce the flow of coolant and when coolant flow through the radiator is reduced temperatures rise. With temperatures running much over 180 heating problems occure in slow or stop and go traffic. G.M.
 
Just added these two additional observations to my original post:

Slower is cooler. On the last leg of our trip I got behind a motor home that was only going 55 instead of the 65 I had been holding. I decided to stay behind him since I was in no hurry. I noticed that after not very long my temperature gauge dropped noticeabley, probably down into the 180 deg. range, at the lower speed. When I finally got tired of that speed and passed him and went back up to 65 the gauge pegged past "H" again.

I had the thought toward the end of the trip that a spray bottle with water in it would have come in real handy to spray on us to help keep us cool. Maybe next time.
 
The firewall on both the driver and passenger sides get in the range of 130 to 135 when it's in the 90's. G.M.

The term "fire" wall took on a whole new meaning for me on this hot trip.
I did measure the temperature of the floor mat that was on top of insulation on the verticle section of the firewall and it was 122 deg!:eek:
Thanks, G.M.
 
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Hey Henry all good info for use Flathead lovers ,You look a lot younger in the photo in front of the store than I would have thought .Ted
The term "fire" wall took on a whole new meaning for me on this hot trip.
I did Meuse the temperature of the floor mat that was on top of insulation on the vertical section of the firewall and it was 122 deg!:eek:
Thanks, G.M.
 
Hey Henry all good info for use Flathead lovers ,You look a lot younger in the photo in front of the store than I would have thought .Ted

Yeah. And the Asian wife and kids were a nice touch too. :rolleyes:

(P.S. Just in case you weren't joking like I am - that was the store owner and family.)
 
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The sides of the top tank of the radiator (as pictured in my post - not the top surface in case there is some air there) is the best place to measure the temperature of the water at its hottest as it has just come out of the top of the engine and does not cool perceptibly traveling through the hoses from the top of the engine to the radiator. . . . Measuring the metal surfaces of the heads or other parts of the engine is not the same as measuring the temperature of the water inside which is what is most critical since that is what we've got to keep below boiling temperature. As shown in my readings, the surface of the heads were 8-13 deg. hotter than the water inside of them. :)

The water inside of the engine will always be cooler than the outside engine surfaces if it is circulating though the engine and radiator because it goes into the bottom of the engine much cooler and picks up heat as it travels up through the engine but never reaching the same temperature as the engine when it leaves the top (unless maybe if it was creeping through the engine real slow). The only exception, of course, would be if the water was not circulating, as when the thermostats are closed, then it is the same temperature.
 
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Thanks Old Henry good post... heat transfer and cooling theory always needs real world experience to prove out what works.
 
.....And hats off to you for driving your ole Ford all over the country! Not many guys would have the.....um.....courage to do so, especially with their wife! (Which says something for your wife's adventuresome spirit, too!)
 
.....And hats off to you for driving your ole Ford all over the country! Not many guys would have the.....um.....courage to do so, especially with their wife! (Which says something for your wife's adventuresome spirit, too!)

The line of demarcation between courage and stupidity is kinda fuzzy sometimes.

My wife is definitely a real trooper. Don't know if adventuresome would be quite right, more extremetly tolerant of my whimsical road trips - just a really "good sport." Kinda like Pepe (the Chihuahua) - doesn't love the road trips but tolerates them peacefully.
 
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