Converting Victoria from auto to manual, help needed...

5

53vicki

Junior Member
My Dad has a 53 Victoria Fordmatic that is, in short, absolutely no fun to drive. He's always wished it was a 3 speed column shift. I know this is a 54 & newer forum but I'm thinking I may be best off with a more modern 3 speed than a 49-53.

Please tell me what year 3 speed with OD will be best to use. I read that 62 Ford's had the 1st full synchro 3 speed - i have no idea what year range of 3 speeds will fit in his 53. Also read that the trans must have side mounted shift linkage in order to have it be column shift.

I'd like to get as modern a trans as possible that will allow it to be bolt in - no major modifications - if that means I need to get a 3 speed from 1949-53 then that's what I'll do. If a newer 3 speed just needs a cross member made that's do- able. Ford trucks in the mid 80's used 3 speeds with OD but I doubt those could work with a column shift. ?

Thanks Guys !
 
I do know that 3 speed trans. up about 65 or maybe even a couple years newer will work. anything newer then 56 you will need a clutch disk to match input on trans. Drive line yokes also change in about 58. 51- to 56 3 speed o/d trans. interchange.If you go to an overdrive trans. always be sure to get the yoke as they can tend to be hard to come by. (slightly larger dia. sometimes) You may also need to deal with drive shaft length also. I'm not positive when the full syncro 3 speed came out but I think it was later then 64. Not sure on that though. We will also need to know what engine you are running. assuming it is a V-8. If this car is still a flathead it would be nice find a dorer 52-53 to get all the necessary change over parts. Pedals,column linkage etc.,By the way, 3 on the tree isn't too much fun either.
 
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If it still have the stock rear axle they are higher geared then the rest putting a overdive in front of them gears would be way high
 
Stock rear axle are 4.10 with a overdrive
Stock rear axle are 3.90 with a 3 speed
Stock rear axle are 3.31 with a automatic
 
The T-85 with R11 is the tough one and was used even in pickups up thru 1972. They would fit the same bell housing if it is an early one but the tail shaft & U-joint knuckle is different (trucks just have a drive flange) plus the input is 1 1/16-inch 10-spline so the clutch plate is also different.

You would be fine with any of the 1952 through 1956 or so type Ford car or light pickup R10 OD transmissions and they would be less expensive than the later R11 units. You will need the bell housing from a 52 thru 53 ford or Mercury plus the clutch mechanism parts and the 3-speed column shift tube & linkages. You can get a reproduction harness from most of the resto parts sources. The relays and solenoids are available new from Randy Rundle at 5th Avenue Internet Garage or you can chance finding NOS or good used stuff off Flea-Pay. You'll also need a lock out control cable for under the dash. These transmissions are easier to find than the later units and will hold up well behind the flathead V8 as long as you take care of them and don't ignore them when they start to have any problems.


Most of the overdrive rear axle ratios were 3.9:1 so you might want to trade out the third member with someone who wants the taller ratio.
 
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Thanks for the replies everyone.

Sid- my Dad's Victoria has a stock 239 flathead. I agree about the column shift, I'd much rather make it a floor shift, but he prefers it on the column.

I'll look into finding a donor car- would be a bonus to get all the needed parts at once including the rear end which is needed.
 
If you decided to go with a straight 3 speed and assuming your car may have 3.31's and you don't live in the mountains you may be okay. No need for overdrive and solenoids either. 3.55's would be ideal. Tire size would also play some roll. With 225/70/15's and 331's you would be at about 2650 rpm @ 65 mph + or -. O/D ****** is nice but a direct 3 speed is an easier conversion without dealing with cables & solenoids etc. I have a F1 ford with a flathead 3.25 rear 235/70/15 tires and works great on take off and top end. FYI diff. carriers 49-56 interchange. 55-56 you my need to use your spider gears or use the later axle as spline count is 28 on the later. Going higher # numerically should not be an issue in your housing if you choose to go that way,
 
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I have a friend that has a complete 4 door 1953 with a stick and overdrive that runs and drive he willing to sale it with or without the engine the car is rusty
 
53vicki said:
My Dad has a 53 Victoria Fordmatic that is, in short, absolutely no fun to drive. He's always wished it was a 3 speed column shift. I know this is a 54 & newer forum but I'm thinking I may be best off with a more modern 3 speed than a 49-53.

Please tell me what year 3 speed with OD will be best to use. I read that 62 Ford's had the 1st full synchro 3 speed - i have no idea what year range of 3 speeds will fit in his 53. Also read that the trans must have side mounted shift linkage in order to have it be column shift.

I'd like to get as modern a trans as possible that will allow it to be bolt in - no major modifications - if that means I need to get a 3 speed from 1949-53 then that's what I'll do. If a newer 3 speed just needs a cross member made that's do- able. Ford trucks in the mid 80's used 3 speeds with OD but I doubt those could work with a column shift. ?

Thanks Guys !
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On the first full synchro trans: This was only on the plain 3 speed trannies. The overdrive ones kept the old style non-synchro low gear.
In my opinion, the overdrive is far superior to a plain 3 speed, well worth the extra time to install. Get that donor car and it's a simple bolt-in deal. As an example, there are dimples on the firewall of your car that mark where the relay bolts on, and a knockout plug in the floor under the gas pedal where the kickdown switch goes.
Be sure to swap in the overdrive rear gears. This will make that flathead wake up and run! Remember, that Fordomatic starts out in 2nd gear unless the gas pedal is completely floored (and the linkage properly set). With the O/D's 4.11 gears it's a whole different animal. Plus, when in overdrive, the rear axle ratio is effectively about 2.90 to 1, so gas mileage goes way up. The kickdown feature ("passing gear") is nice to have, too. And, 2nd overdrive is sometimes just the ratio you need.
 
1931flathead said:
I have a friend that has a complete 4 door 1953 with a stick and overdrive that runs and drive he willing to sale it with or without the engine the car is rusty
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It would be best to get a standard shift column and the pedals and linkage from a 1952-54 donor car for your swap,you probably won't have any problem selling your automatic column and pedal and linkage to folks doing a 302/5.0 & AOD or C4 swap the Ford-O-Matic columns are simple to adapt to those later transmissions. There are several facebook sites that cater to those years of Fords you should check out for your parts swap. here's just two: https://www.facebook.com/groups/573457469381914/ And https://www.facebook.com/groups/243954815799117/ ;)
 
My Dad and I did this swap on my 52 Merc years ago. The mercomatic was tough and reliable but very slow. We found a car in a junkyard with most linkages (even the throttle linkage is different) and steering column, and pedals. You only need the clutch pedal and associated hardware. We got the transmission and clutch pivot bracket and equalizer bar from a 53 Ford ranch wagon. We found out later that the equalizer bar is different on Ford and Merc
As I recall everything else was the same, including the driveshaft. We also used a 4:11 rear as the 3:31 wasn't a good match. (We also installed overdrive). Best thing to do in your case is find a donor car to use the parts from.
Rob
 
Mercs had the same transmission but they did have a different bell housing (cast iron type). They used a Borg & Beck clutch too.
 
If by "fun" you mean performance, and you are going to stick with the older model transmission, you better get about 5 spare transmissions. Those old trannies were notoriously weak and will break at the thought of a speed shift. By the way, the old Ford-O-Matics will out run the manual shift every time especially if the manual breaks and you have to push it home.
 
Motorhead6 said:
If by "fun" you mean performance, and you are going to stick with the older model transmission, you better get about 5 spare transmissions. Those old trannies were notoriously weak and will break at the thought of a speed shift. By the way, the old Ford-O-Matics will out run the manual shift every time especially if the manual breaks and you have to push it home.
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Isn’t that the truth. When I had my 57 back in the 70s I was always blowing up the 3 speed trans. Installing a Hays clutch didn’t help matters any either. Luckily or unluckily it was always first that went so could always limp home.
 
If you get an O.D. try to make a deal with the seller that it must have a good sun gear. They are often worn out and they are hard to find.
 
As long a your modifying it, why not a 5 speed, early 90's S 10, you can buy a flathead to GM adaptor and you'll have a low enough 1st gear that your existing 3.31 rear end will work ok
 
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