caster tools

reggiedog

reggiedog

Well-known member
HI:

I have a question for someone on here I hope someone does anyway but does anyone have one of the Duby Front End Caster Tool with the Patent #being 2007565 and is what I was told it was for but not sure on that one it could be for aligning all 4 wheels I have no clue on that one as that's what I'm trying to find out what that tool is for.

And if it is for the Front End Casters so and that is for aligning the casters on the front wheels and that is what that patent # is for and NOT for aligning all 4 wheels but how big is this tool also is it about the size of the Duby Alignment Tool for the toe in and out of the front wheels as I have seen the patent pics of it and it looks big.

And if someone has one of these and knows as to about what there worth today as I know that they first came out in July of 1935 but I don't know if you can still buy them today or not if they are made today or not and are the old ones better then the new ones just like the Alignment tool is the old one are better then the new ones.

Jeff
 
The only way to change the caster on a model A is push the wishbone ball further away from the transmission mount, or bend the I-beam axle.
 
Jason in TX said:
Duby Camber tool sells on ebay for $100 + shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-G-Tool-Aid-61500-46-74-Duby-Wheel-Aligning-Gages-/311735576176

I made one with a piece of conduit and a stick of rebar.
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Jason ,
that one was a real rarity to see. Sorry I missed that one as it is one of the select few I don't have. weather it's useful or not I'm not sure. Not sure what Reggiedog is trying to accomplish but if it's collecting the original tools it takes many years and time.

For the most part as long as the axle isn't bent and one is using the original style caps it should be fine.
Larry Shepard
 
I was told to correct the shimmy that I have in the front axle that I have I need to buy a caster tool for that and then I was told to buy only the original caster tools as the new ones are junk.
And not worth the money I have no clue of this as I have never heard of a caster tool until now as I was told that is what I need to get to fix the shimmy in the front axle that I have and I was also told that there are shims that you can buy now to put in between them in different thickness as I was told to fix that.
If that is true don't know I was just told that so if there is even a caster tool out there made by John F. Duby just like the Original Front end toe in Alignment tool that I already have I haven't found the Patent # to it yet or for that mater by anyone just as long it is for the casters is all I care but it has to be from back in the 20's and 30's.
I don't even know what one looks like as I was also told a new Alignment machine like if you went to have your car aligned for new tires won't do it as that was the first placed I asked and they all told me the same thing that there's no way that old cars like that will work on the new digital alignment machines because of the balloon tires is what one of them told me.
So now I'm back to square one trying to find a original Caster tool if there is even one to find and that's what I'm trying to find out now on here.
Reggiedog
 
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reggiedog said:
I was told to correct the shimmy that I have in the front axle I need a caster tool for that and then I was told to buy only the original caster tools as the new ones are junk.
And not worth the money I have no clue of this as I have never heard of a caster tool until now as I was told that is what I need to get to fix the shimmy that I have in the front axle as I was told that there are shims that you can buy now to put in between them in different thickness as I was told.
If that is true don't know I was told that so is there even a caster tool out there made by John F. Duby just like the Original Front end toe in Alignment tool that I already have if so I haven't found the Patent # to it yet.
To see what one looks like as I was also told a new Alignment machine like if you went to have your car aligned for new tires won't do it as that was the first placed I asked and they told me that there's no way that old cars like that will work on the new digital alignment machines.
So now I'm back to square one trying to find a original Caster tool if there is even one to find and that's what I'm trying to find out on here.
Reggiedog
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You were given wrong and bogus info... we align A's all the time on our state of the art hunter machine. Any spec can be downloaded or manually put into the data base, then saved as a custom vehicle ie labeled Model A.

Those that set toe with the duby gauge or a shower rod, ill bet your toe is off when done. Of course it's what most have available so i understand that. Just stating a fact, computerized alignments are very sensitive and accurate. Its like comparing apples to oranges.
Once the heads are put on the wheels the car gets rolled fwd approx 6" onto the turn plates. This compensates the sensors to the machine. It tells the machine the wheel runout, and sensor location on the rim.. it doesnt matter if the sensors are mounted off center on the wheel.
 

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There are many reasons for Model A shimmy.

- wheel bearing nut not torqued properly
- tie rod ends not tight enough, wear on the steering balls, springs inside broken
- wishbone ball mount loose, wear on the wishbone ball
- worn out front springs
- bad king pins
- loose drag link
- steering box loose in frame

on and on....
 
The whole front end was just re-built so that isn't it as when the car was running we looked at all of that and couldn't find a thing wrong with it.
But as of now I'm into the rear end until I find the stuff to fix the front end as I have 4 mechanics telling me what it is plus I have 2 mechanics in my family as most of us have been around old cars for a very long time but mostly 40's and 50's but I got this as it was my dads car that he had when he was a kid so I have to fix it the right way.
And we checked everything out that it could possibly be and they all passed as we have allot of books on old cars and the Model A's as we built a Model A once out of just repo parts and that thing is still on the road can't believe it I thought that would of died a long time ago but it's still kicking.
So we know what we are doing on this car it's just I can't figure out if it's the caster or not as we kind of have a bet going here as to what it is and NO we ARE NOT looking to buy old tools like allot of people on here think I have enough tools it's just I don't have a Original Duby Caster Tool that will work on this car.
 
Wheel alignment is a process if visually assessing the results of the factors of alignment in your head, and comparing these values to available specifications. The factors are; toe in, toe out on turns, Right and Left camber, King pin inclination and, caster. Add to that tire air pressure, wheel runout and roundness and right to left brakeing synchronization and brake drum roundness. Then there is also, the ability to assess steering linkage looseness. That is a lot to learn. Alignment systems have come a long way in 85 years, all for the betterment of getting readings that have to be processed in your head. The Duby toe bar measures toe only, for all practical purposes.
Modern alignment systems can measure the other factors except that they, for the most part, are difficult to mount the heads on 28 - 29 wheels. No patent numbers or age old equipment will overcome not knowing about and understanding the other factors of alignment. What is left that one is able to do to stop shimmy? Read the previous posts and descriptions about what others have done in previous posts to fix or cover up the problem. I believe that you can learn about the causes and symptoms by studying the other factors of alignment and why they are built into the car. Also one needs to understand what can be done to correct issues that are out of spec. on our Model A front end. I think you will get this done if you read about why the other factors have been incorporated into the front end so long ago - and they can be measured now, better than ever before, at an alignment shop. Specifically, a truck shop that can bend the axle as there are no shims in the system.
Best of luck.
 
These are the old school tools needed to check caster.

Bob
 

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reggiedog said:
The whole front end was just re-built so that isn't it as when the car was running we looked at all of that and couldn't find a thing wrong with it.
But as of now I'm into the rear end until I find the stuff to fix the front end as I have 4 mechanics telling me what it is plus I have 2 mechanics in my family as most of us have been around old cars for a very long time but mostly 40's and 50's but I got this as it was my dads car that he had when he was a kid so I have to fix it the right way.
And we checked everything out that it could possibly be and they all passed as we have allot of books on old cars and the Model A's as we built a Model A once out of just repo parts and that thing is still on the road can't believe it I thought that would of died a long time ago but it's still kicking.
So we know what we are doing on this car it's just I can't figure out if it's the caster or not as we kind of have a bet going here as to what it is and NO we ARE NOT looking to buy old tools like allot of people on here think I have enough tools it's just I don't have a Original Duby Caster Tool that will work on this car.
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I don't mean to be demeaning in any way here, but it seems like you may be confusing toe-in with caster. A toe-in gauge will not measure caster. You talk about "casters" as if they are parts in the front end (at least that's the impression I get). "Caster" is merely a measurement, expressed in degrees, that reflects on the self-centering action of a front suspension. Turn a corner, let go of the steering wheel and it should return to the straight ahead position, or nearly so. Too little caster and the car will tend to wander (and may contribute to the "golly-wobbles" you have). A difference in caster readings from side to side will make the car pull to the side with the least caster. Too much caster will make a manual steering car harder to steer. This is because the caster effect actually raises the car when you turn. The weight of the car on the suspension is what gives the self-centering effect.
To be blunt, you need a better source of front end advice! Find as real front end man with experience in solid axle suspensions. Do some research
on front suspension design theory (caster, camber and toe-in principles).
On a Model A, to change the caster setting, you have to raise or lower the radius arm ball as mentioned, or twist the axle between the spring perch and kingpin (hard to do without messing up the camber setting!).
 
Camber can make a car pull also....
Here is a very informative little poem::::::

"""Camber high
Caster low
Thats the way the car will go"""
 
Are you running a rubber ball and cap or the original style steel cap and ball on the radius socket. The rubber ball styles are notorious for causing issues.
Larry
 
Castor changes if you move the radius ball up or down , as it tilts the axle. Just go to the hardware store and by a 90° triangle level, that has a magnetic edge. Just set it vertically against the axle and read the castor angle. Then you'll know, if that's a problem or not.
As I recall should be 5° and a degree or so probably isn't worth messing with.
 
reggiedog said:
The whole front end was just re-built so that isn't it as when the car was running we looked at all of that and couldn't find a thing wrong with it.
Click to expand...

Rebuilt by whom?
Someone with experience?
What exactlywas rebuilt?
What specifications were used?

Model A Front Axle Specifications:

As late as 1934, the 1934 Motors Magazine was showing 1931 Model A Ford front axle specifications as being the same as that specified by Ford:*

a. Two (2) degrees for camber; and,

b. One-sixteenth (1/16) inch for toe-in; and,

c. Seven (7) degrees inclination angle for king pins.

And then there is this information;
 

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I realize from you latest post the the front end has been completely rebuilt. That said I suspect that it is possible that something may still be loose. Perhaps a tie rod end was not tightened quite enough or one of the backing plates is slightly loose. Just to be sure have one of your fellow mechanics sit in the car and move the steering wheel back and forth just enough to bump the wheels into almost turning. Have them do this repeatedly while you are inspecting all parts of the steering system looking for any looseness. Do this while the wheels are on the ground.
Getting all looseness out and proper toe in usually goes a long way in getting rid of front end shimmy and wobble.
 
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